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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity? (Read 19629 times)
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #30 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 2:16pm
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waterman wrote on Feb 25th, 2014 at 8:57pm:
I just googled "sweeping compounds".  There are many different types, but my bet is that was what Dr. Mann used.  

As a kid, I was the clean-up boy in a large commercial building.  The boss had sweeping compound in big barrels, maybe 30 gallon size, maybe 4 to a pallet.  IIRC, it was colored oiled sawdust or maybe shredded wood.  The individual grains were much heavier than paper, but lighter than sand.

I would build a box 30" wide, about 30" deep and about 8 feet long. Only cover the bottom, sides & back end. Put target paper over the open front end and pack it with sweeping compound about 2 feet deep. Put a tarp over the box when you shoot, that will keep the sawdust inside. 

Shoot so that the bullet enters the long axis of the box, right in the middle of the sweeping compound.  Getting set up for the tests would probably cost $250 to $300 for everything.  With some experience, you could make the box shorter than 8 feet.

I built such a box & filled it with sand (dug from a sandbar in a river, but screened to get rid of the gravel) to test penetration & deformation of jacketed bullets from .470 NE, etc., fired from rest & over chronograph, range about 50 feet.  I learned a lot, but the sand scratched up the surface of the bullets.  Greatest penetration was about 4 feet.  Bullets might go a lot further in sawdust.



This to me looks to be on the right track but I wonder how long that box has to be.  Seems like I saw something like this in some kind of a FBI or G man movie years ago.  Tried water.  It does deform and with the higher velocity the more deformation you get .  I think it was at about 3000 fps, the bullet shattered.
Going back to the oiled sawdust in the box.  I wonder if shavings from a planer might work then oil them with a lightweight motor oil.  Use a cheap ( Radio Shack ) metal detector to locate the bullet position ?????
  
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #31 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 2:36pm
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QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Feb 25th, 2014 at 4:06pm:
As I recall MythBusters did a sequence about shooting at someone under water; and as I recall 3-4 feet was enough to slow the bullets used to the point where a swimmer at that depth or more would be safe----but not sure what cal/cartridges was used. 
 What would be safe for say a 223 might be a lot different than a .50BMG.  
I'm wondering how a softer than standard long block ballistic gel would work.  I'm thinking a succession of mediums with softer ones in front and denser ones farther back to slow the bullet progressively might not avoid deformation

sources:  Just google "ballistic gel"  
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you can buy it on amazon


I remember that episode and as I recall, the high velocity bullets fragmented. They actually used a 50 cal. in an indoor swimming pool, no damage to the test dummy 2..3...4? feet below the surface. Their first test was in a plexiglass tank with a 12 ga slug (?) The tank burst open. That was pretty messy.
  
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #32 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 3:11pm
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Would shots into water at a distance of 400-600 yards, deform a lead bullet?  Thinking if a bullet started out 1200- 1500 FPS, would be going pretty slow out there a ways.

    Joe.
  

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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #33 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 10:02pm
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Build a small diameter wind tunnel that will generate a headwind with a velocity just a couple feet slower than that of your fired bullets.
       Cheesy

  

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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #34 - Feb 26th, 2014 at 10:31pm
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Found this gem in a post by Sendaro about another topic ...

Sendaro wrote on Jan 29th, 2012 at 8:48pm:
Dr. Mann recovered bullets that were shot into snow or oiled saw dust so that they would not be distorted.
  

All of my single shots shoot one tiny ragged hole with cast bullets ... it's just the following shots that tend to open up my groups Wink ...
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #35 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 2:55pm
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Watermans comment are sililar to our vermiculite box 2 foot sq 8 foot long, shoot through paper one end pick bullet out of box. Metal detector helps find them
  
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #36 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 4:53pm
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BP wrote on Feb 26th, 2014 at 10:02pm:
Build a small diameter wind tunnel that will generate a headwind with a velocity just a couple feet slower than that of your fired bullets.
       Cheesy



Thus, we have noodlelogic, born.

    Joe.
  

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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #37 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 5:49pm
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BP wrote on Feb 26th, 2014 at 10:02pm:
Build a small diameter wind tunnel that will generate a headwind with a velocity just a couple feet slower than that of your fired bullets.
       Cheesy




By George, he's got it!!  I could shoot into a jet engine exhaust!!!   Wink
  

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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #38 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:06pm
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There is an old Muzzleblasts article about fine tuning a slug gun that contains some information on catching bullets.   The article is excellent and worth reading for other reasons.   

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Chris.
  
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #39 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 7:28pm
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Many years back I remember something about catching bullets in cotton bales. Have never tried it. 

What does, or did, the White Laboratories use?

John Louis makes a very good point when he suggest that the bullet needs to be fired at the same velocity that it will be used to produce an artifact that will be a true representation for study. It would appear to me that a catching chamber constructed 36"Hx24"wX 8'deep and filled with styrofoam beads having a thin foam rubber cover as the targeted end may work. By placing it at a distance beyond the muzzle where velocity decelerates to the point that the bullet will pass through the foam rubber target end of the chamber, but yet be at a velocity that will be less than required to deform the projectile. 

Note the 36" heigth (or greater) may be necessary as the arch of the projectile maybe so great that it's desent would not follow a path through the axis of the catching chamber. If tried and the angle is too great the chamber could be tipped up some elevating the end targeted for entrance by the projectile.

Given the lead/tin bullets we use at a velocity range of 1350 to 1600 fps MV I do think that this would work. It may require a range of 200 yards or greater, however it should work. 

                                       Sendaro
  
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #40 - Feb 27th, 2014 at 8:59pm
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Another method is simply to fill a long rectangular box with RAGS.  They get all wrapped up around the bullet.
  

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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #41 - Feb 28th, 2014 at 1:37am
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bnice wrote on Feb 27th, 2014 at 2:55pm:
Watermans comment are sililar to our vermiculite box 2 foot sq 8 foot long, shoot through paper one end pick bullet out of box. Metal detector helps find them


bnice,

Is the vermiculite in your bullet catch box dry or lightly oiled?

Wayne
  

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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #42 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 9:03am
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Mann's book was mentioned, I bet IF you came up with a perfect way to decelerate bullets the same conclusions would be the same as Manns.

  
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #43 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 11:32am
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Quote:
Mann's book was mentioned, I bet IF you came up with a perfect way to decelerate bullets the same conclusions would be the same as Manns.



I suspect that you are correct. The link I posted describes a setup that sounds quite similar to what I remember from Mann's book.   

Chris.

  
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #44 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 7:48pm
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Dry, it used to be a common insulation, it is a light loose small grain material, I would think cellulose would also work.
  
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