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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity? (Read 19605 times)
John in PA
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How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Feb 24th, 2014 at 8:37pm
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I posted this question over on the Cast Boolit forum without receiving any really new or authoritative answers.  What say you all?

"If you want to catch fired cast bullets without any deformation to study obturation, bore ride, and other features of bullet performance in flight what is the best medium? Many years ago Dr. Franklin Mann, in his book "The Bullet's Flight from Powder to Target" found large boxes of oiled sawdust to be the best at capturing undeformed bullets. I have also accidentally found bullets in the spring after a deep winter snow buildup that were captured and gradually decellerated and deposited unharmed on the grass to be found after snow melt.

What methods have been devised since Dr Mann's work that are repeatable and easily duplicated in the home ballistics laboratory?

Again, I DON'T want to test expansion. I can do that with well-soaked newspapers. I want to catch the bullet as it is after firing but unaffected by impact."
  

John Wells
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #1 - Feb 24th, 2014 at 8:46pm
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There is another technique, albeit limited by the weather.

When in Iowa, suffering from cabin fever, it was well below zero and had been for weeks.

We went out to the Skunk River - about 50 feet wide, a couple of feet or so deep and banks that were 15' high straight up.  Frozen solid except for an occasional channel where the ice would only be a foot thick.

Took the .357 and set up cans for plinking at 20 to 50 paces.  After much shooting, we walked down range.  There was a rift of snow with a bullet hole in it; then a slight rise with a groove in it; then a series of grooves in the 1" of snow on top of the ices that curved gently to the right AND right there was a snow/ice encrusted bullet SITTING on top of the snow.  Lots of 'em.  NO DEFORMATION.

It even worked with a 22-250 but we lost most to ricochets and the distance had to be MUCH further to get the angle right (almost parallel to the ice).

Mann makes mention of something similar on a 100 or 200 yard range along a hillside.

  

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Lefty38-55
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #2 - Feb 24th, 2014 at 9:55pm
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FWIW we just slugged a few mil-surp bolt actions by shooting cast bullets into rags, over a charge of a few grains of Bullseye, and caught them in piles of rags in a box ... backed up w/ wood for safety. Worked slick!
  

All of my single shots shoot one tiny ragged hole with cast bullets ... it's just the following shots that tend to open up my groups Wink ...
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JS47
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #3 - Feb 24th, 2014 at 10:35pm
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If your not in a hurry a snow bank works real well.  I blow snow to form a bank every winter and shoot into it all season.  The only deformed bullets are those that run into another one.  I pick them all up in the spring and re-melt them.
  
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Dr Tom
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #4 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 12:01am
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No snow in very rural Texas. I fill a cardboard box or a length of PVC pipe with wet oak leaves. Seems to work OK.
  
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JLouis
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #5 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 12:29am
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If you don't catch the bullet at the speed normally shot you will not realize the full transformation that takes place as the bullet shortens and the nose slumps all very critical information especially in regards to retained balance. If you simply have enough powder to push the bullet out of the bore you might as well push it through with a rod and catch it in a hat as it is only going to show you bore and groove deminsions.

JLouis
  

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don1885
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #6 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 9:40am
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For those of you that have managed to examine minimally damaged bullets I have a question. How much, if any, lube do you see remaining in the grooves?

Also has anyone tried catching PB lead in water?
  

Don
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westerner
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #7 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 9:54am
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I live in an area with high bluffs over water. Could shoot long range into the water. Could catch bullets in a trap suspended in water by four floats. Have the plan in my head and lead in my butt.

    Joe.
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #8 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 10:12am
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Interesting question.  As I recall, forensic ballisticians shoot into water tubes,  something like an inclined 8 or 10 inch diameter tube filled with several feet of water.
  However how well that would create an undeformed bullet would depend greatly on velocity and bullet hardness. 
  I have recollections of photos of 45-70 bullets recovered for the wet sand in the army's long range accuracy test that showed deformation, but whether it was from impact or from "slugging" or both I don't recall.
  

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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #9 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 10:14am
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The best that I have seen is a box filled with ground up rubber this is the recycled stuff. There used to be a plant near me that ground up rubber tires and recycled them is what we used, the only problem is the people that grind up the tires grind up the steel belts in them to and don't bother to separate the steel from the rubber so you have to do that yourself. 

A buddy and myself built a wood box with the end open and stretched a piece of rubber inner tube over that to shoot into. the first one we built was 8' long but found out that 4 foot was more than plenty with a hinged lid. We were shooting mostly BPCR and military cast bullet loads probably traveling 1100 to 1600 fps. Something else that would work if you can get it is the shredded rubber that is used for outdoor tracks that people run on. But it is hard to get expensive.

RB
  
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bpjack
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #10 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 11:36am
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Hey Joe,

Have you thought about shooting straight up and catching them on a pillow?  Good eyes and running shoes would help Smiley
Remember to allow for the wind. 

Jack
  

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marlinguy
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #11 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 12:01pm
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If you can set it up, water seems to do the least damage to a bullet. On bullets I've recovered from sand boxes they do deform, but are pretty good shape. Nothing I've ever recovered has had any lube left on it, or more than a residue.
  

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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #12 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 12:40pm
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There was a guy on the old shooters.com forum that lived in Southern California who shot various BPCR bullets into his swimming pool on the 4th of July and then had his grandkids dive for them. Claimed it worked good.  Any other day and his neighbors would call the cops.  Smiley

Steve Smiley
  
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #13 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 1:14pm
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I've shot a LOT of bullets into the water.  They do deform.
  

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John in PA
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Re: How best to catch fired bullets WITHOUT deformity?
Reply #14 - Feb 25th, 2014 at 1:36pm
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How much water does it take to scrub off speed? Several feet?  And, I wonder if the water impact would lessen if you aerated the water? 

I know they claim movies that show people being shot by bullets penetrating under water are bogus, but I wouldn't want to be the catcher in that experiment!!
  

John Wells
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