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harry_eales
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Has anyone seen.....
Jan 26th, 2014 at 3:12am
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Browsing in my computer files I came across a picture of a drawing of Sharps Rifle Ammunition, ranging from the early paper or linen rounds through all of their brass cased rounds. I almost passed it by until I spotted a round I can't say I have ever heard of, never mind a rifle chambered for it. Now most shooters have heard of the Sharps 'Big fifty' which most understand to be the 50/70 or 50/90 but this round was labelled up as the 50/120/700/3.25". Has anyone ever come across such a round or a rifle chambered to fire it. Or is it like the 45/120/550 3.25" round, advertised but never made?

Harry
« Last Edit: Jan 26th, 2014 at 6:28am by »  
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MP
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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #1 - Jan 26th, 2014 at 2:58pm
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harry_eales
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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #2 - Jan 26th, 2014 at 3:51pm
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Hello Michael,

Many thanks for the pictures, they're much appreciated. It's interesting that UNC produced that round as I understand that at one time they were operating from the Sharps Factory (possibly as a subsidiary of Sharps) before the Sharps business folded in 1881. They were later acquired by Remington and became Remington Union Metallic Cartridge Company.
Regards,

Harry

  
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gunlaker
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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #3 - Jan 26th, 2014 at 7:05pm
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I have a modern 1874 Sharps ( C. Sharps ) chambered in .50 -3.25".  It's been waiting at the gunsmith's for several years to be reborn as a .45-2.4"

Chris.
  
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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #4 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 8:42am
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Sharps never chambered anything longer in .50 caliber than 2 ˝” straight. The standard load was 100 grains of powder with either a 425 grooved bullet or a 473 grain paper patch bullet. The .50 3 ˝” came long after the Sharps rifle Company went out of business. Donaldson lists it as 1882 by sharps but Sellers never even mentions it in his book on Sharps I would take the Sellers information. 

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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #5 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 7:36pm
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Historically, the term "big 50" referred to the 50-90 Sharps and the borrowed rifle that Billy Dixon used the morning after the major action of the battle of Adobe Walls in 1874 during the Red River (Buffalo) war.  Quanah Parker was conferring with his Shaman Ishi Tani and several other braves when with a young buffalo skinner named Bat Masterson spotted for Dixon where walking the third shot up, he knocked an indian off of his horse at 1,538 yards beside Quanah Parker breaking the indians rib(s).  Senseing this was a bad omen Parker then withdrew leaving the buffalo hunters alone.  Most cases found at a recent archeological dig at the site were 44-77, 50-70, and 44 RF Henry.  Haveing visited the Adobe Walls site, I could better apreciate the feat.

I suspect that the very long 45 and 50 cal rounds were developed for Remington long range shooters.  This may also be the origin of the 44-90.

Dixon earned the Medal of Honor a couple of months later at the Buffalo Wallow fight as a contract scout for the Army.

James

  
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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #6 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 9:05pm
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Quite a few years back (mid 1980's) I was shooting at the annual "Buffalo Runners" shoot at Virginia City, Montana.  The fellow next to me had a Ballard that had been rebarreled to the 50-140-3.25 cartridge.  I'm not sure what weight bullet he was using, but every time he fired the thing he got a bloody nose.  I think I was shooting an eighteen pound Sharps 45-120-3.25 at the time with a 425 grain bullet and that wasn't fun either.  Got the cure pretty fast and went back to 40-70, 45-70, and 50-70.   

George
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John Boy
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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #7 - Jan 27th, 2014 at 11:10pm
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But as noted, Sharps didn't cut chambers for all of the rounds listed
A few years back on the Shiloh forum, there was a very long thread discussing Sharps chambers vs the rounds that were produced.  Kenny Wasserburger has a large reference library about Sharps and provide interesting facts of what and when and who

If the jpg is printed to 8 1/2 x 11 - the calibers are able to be identified better
  
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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #8 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 12:46am
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George Babits wrote on Jan 27th, 2014 at 9:05pm:
Quite a few years back (mid 1980's) I was shooting at the annual "Buffalo Runners" shoot at Virginia City, Montana.  The fellow next to me had a Ballard that had been rebarreled to the 50-140-3.25 cartridge.  I'm not sure what weight bullet he was using, but every time he fired the thing he got a bloody nose.  I think I was shooting an eighteen pound Sharps 45-120-3.25 at the time with a 425 grain bullet and that wasn't fun either.  Got the cure pretty fast and went back to 40-70, 45-70, and 50-70.  

George
Salmon, Idaho


Early nineties, used a ten pound Borchardt long range rifle at Raton for the 1000 yard match. 45-90, duplex loads. 540 grain bullet.  Ron long was spotting for me. I'd tech one off, Ron would put my glasses back on straight and wipe my nose all the while laughing. Started with nines and tens. About the sixth shot, Maggies drawers, whah? Was in my early thirties so was not hurt physically........much. Finished with 8's and 7's. Ron won with his Ballard 40-65 frog gun.   

It's all about padding and angling your body so it doesn't make a human sled out of you. Lot's of padding. A first aid kit isn't a bad idea either.

              Joe.
  

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harry_eales
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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #9 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:19am
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Gentlemen,

Thank you all for your input, it was very informative. John Boy, the picture you show is the very same as that on my computer. I tried to post it but my Photoshop programme hasn't worked correctly for several weeks, and I couldn't reduce it enough in size to post it here. 

Joe, it's only recoil, you have to learn to live with it.  Roll Eyes I started with a .22 LR and apart from a dozen or two shots from a .303 British SMLE my next gun was a .577 3 1/4" Express. Not advisable to shoot that from the prone or sitting bench rest.  Undecided A standing rest is the only way to shoot that rifle a lot without loosening all your teeth.  Embarrassed

Harry
 

  
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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #10 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:26am
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You guy's need to suck it up and try a 8 bore Double from any position  Grin

I saved the can that I killed with that 8 bore Double. It's been dead since the 90's, real dead Smiley

Frank
« Last Edit: Jan 28th, 2014 at 4:09pm by frnkeore »  

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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #11 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 1:34am
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Trying to stay positive, Frank. Will be testing loads in my newly re-bored Sharps tomorrow. 

Just remembered, have some pain pills stuck away in a drawer somewhere here.   

Have a Rand recoil pad on the way. Have a bunch of bubble wrap in the shop, hmmmm.......

         Joe.
  

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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #12 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 3:10am
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Look out Joe, popping that bubble warp can be habit forming   Smiley

Frank
  

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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #13 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 7:29am
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I seem to recall that Win chambered some of those oversize "sharps" cartridges in the '85 ss.   I think Campbell discusses them in his 2 vol. set on the 1885 win. 
  My admittedly patchy memory is that it was part of their English office's not-too-successful effort to make a inroad into the english tropical hunting market. So they made a few in the big-bore high-capacity cartridges and tried to capitalize on the "Sharps" name and reputation.

Wasn't "big 50" also used by the commercial buffalo hunters to describe the 50 gvmt cartridge in the "trapdoors";  "trapdoors"  probably being the most common single shot in that area at that time?
  

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Re: Has anyone seen.....
Reply #14 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 8:32am
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Sellers writes that Sharps developed the 50-2 ˝” for the commercial trade but that the cartridge wasn’t popular. Commercial hunters felt that the 50-70 was perfectly adequate for their needs and the that the increased recoil made shooting long strings uncomfortable. Apparently those “real men” were more interested in results than bragging rights on how much punishment they could take.
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