Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Hopkins & Allen 922 (Read 31570 times)
leon
Ex Member


Hopkins & Allen 922
Jan 19th, 2014 at 5:44pm
Print Post  
I have what I believe from overall length, 38 inches, and from rebounding hammer, to be a H & A Model 922.  It has a full octagon 22 inch barrel, heavy steel crescent buttplate with "tang" forward on top the stock, extractor finger to the left of the chamber and carries SN 2390.  Action is 1.0" wide.  The take-down screw is in the same location and looks like that on a Stevens Favorite.  Behind the rear sight on top the barrel is stamped "22 R. F."  So, is this a Model 922?  About when was it manufactured?  Is it chambered in 22 WRF or 22 S, L, LR?  It's in anything but good condition!!!
« Last Edit: Jan 19th, 2014 at 8:14pm by »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #1 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 8:24pm
Print Post  
As always, a picture will help.   The 922 is a true falling-block action, where the 822 H&A is variation on the rolling block theme.  The 922 block drops dead vertical, drawn by a link to the underlever.   They were made in .22 rimfire, and there was also a model 932 that was .32 rimfire.  I have one of each.  The .22 version was chambered for .22 LR, never .22 WRF.  It is, for a cheap "boy's rifle", a pretty strong action, capable of handling today's High Speed cartridges, but I'd not recommend that it be chambered to .22WMR (in lieu of .22WRF).    

They were made in the period from about 1900 to 1915. Exact years are sketchy, since no records from the factory have survived - only old catalogs.  H&A also made them in quantity to be sold by hardware wholesalers under other names.  

Your barrel retention screw being on the bottom marks it as a later model.  Early ones had a taper pin going through from the side.    

Design is almost a dead ringer for the 1880s Bay State, designed by Davenport, which may have come about because Davenport himself is reported to have worked for H&A for a time.
« Last Edit: Jan 19th, 2014 at 9:00pm by uscra112 »  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
leon
Ex Member


Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #2 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 6:36pm
Print Post  
For sure it is a falling block.  The chamber is now so loose that I bet a .22 WRF would fit in and the extractor might even catch the rim.  I'll try to add a picture or three.  The take-down screw is borrowed off a Favorite, too short, but at least shows where the screw is.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
leon
Ex Member


Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #3 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 6:37pm
Print Post  
Another photo
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
leon
Ex Member


Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #4 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 6:37pm
Print Post  
And another
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
leon
Ex Member


Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #5 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 6:38pm
Print Post  
Last one
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
coljimmy
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 283
Joined: Nov 10th, 2012
Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #6 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:19pm
Print Post  
Not sure that is a mature 922, suspect it is an early one as they settled on a 6 o'clock extractor for mine which is a 17,000 range serial no. or it is a Junior.  The high quality rear sight on yours looks identical to the sight on my 2938 (38 S&W calibre) Medium Frame and my 32 WCF Hopkins also marked Merwin (a major stockholder in H&A) which also has a 9 o'clock extractor but different shaped from yours notably with a taper pin from the left frame for the 38 but not for the 32.  There was more than one pattern and patents for the taper pins and apparently were used in the more expensive rifles with the  bottom screw retained in the lighter cheaper rifles (I think?).  Yours may be the Junior model which is confused with the 922 but apparently slightly more improved.  I am still confused so dont feel alone.

The H&A firm was started about 1867 makeing Bacon pattern revolvers and muff pistols, later made the 722 and 822 and 832 rifles then apparently borrowing from the Davenport rifle patents, the 900 series.  After a couple of corporate reorganizations, went belly-up and sold out to Marlin in about 1917 where the plant made M1917 BAR's and possibly Colt type machine guns since the potato digger in the Texas Military Forces Museum in Austin was made by Marlin (the old thing can still rock and roll).

For more confusion, get a copy of Frank de Haas's book which could use an update on the topic.

James

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #7 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 10:27pm
Print Post  
Yup, definitely a late model 922.  Deluxe model, since it has the octagon barrel.  Have never seen one with that deep curved buttplate before, but H&A did all kinds of variations.  

Doesn't look too awful bad - a liner in the barrel and a general cleaning and tightening-up will make it a decent plinker or small-game rifle for a youngster.   I've picked numerous squirrels off the feeder with mine.  

Barrel retention screw could be from a Favorite, but it's not at all unlike the one on my 822 and 932.  Could just as well be original.     

@coljimmy - You and I both have Juniors, with the 6 o'clock extractor.  As far as I have read, these pre-date the 922/932, which design has a somewhat longer frame and the 9 o'clock extractor.   Best info I have, as I have not bought all the earliest catalog reprints from Cornell Pubs.    

« Last Edit: Jan 20th, 2014 at 11:55pm by uscra112 »  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #8 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 12:44am
Print Post  
Pulled out my copy of Jos. Vorisek's little book to refresh my fallible remembery.

The model with the taper pin thru the side is an XL Junior.  According to Vorisek, made from 1880 to 1908. I'm less sure about that.  The Junior is a scaled-down version of what we now call the "medium frame". Both are very close to the Davenport-designed Bay State, a late 1880s child, made only for a couple of years.  (I've got one, chambered .32 Long Colt CF).  H&A bought Bay State out in 1890, so I'm inclined to think that the Junior and Medium frame started in 1890 as H&A products.

In 1900 the H&A plant burned to the ground, and to keep going they bought the Forehand plant.  The 722/822/922 seem to be new designs brought out after the fire.  Probably because they had to make new tooling anyway, so they improved the design.   And I also think that, despite Vorisek's dating, the XL medium and XL Junior probably disappeared in the fire, since the tooling was certainly gone. 

Vorisek did his best, I'm sure, but he also got some points wrong.  For instance, he describes the 922 as an upgraded model using the same action as the 822, which it is not.  The 822 is a rolling block, while as we see the 922 is a falling block. Given that he was certainly well and truly taken up with the blizzard of H&A handgun models to sort out, he can be forgiven, IMHO.

BTW from this source and also a catalog reprint I have, the O.P.'s rifle seems to be a 2922, the very top of the line. 

My two complete H&A rifles:
Upper one is the XL Junior.  Lower is a model 1932, modified to shoot .32 S&W centerfire.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7324
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #9 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 2:02am
Print Post  
One more question regarding the 922. Were they case hardened or CCH? I've never seen one at had any CC colors left.

Mine is in excellent condition as far as the metal goes and the stock in very good condition but, it appears to be case hardened and had a hot blue done over it.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1829
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #10 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 2:18am
Print Post  
Here's close to what they looked like from the factory:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

dave
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
leon
Ex Member


Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #11 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 7:28am
Print Post  
I don't have either the de Haas nor Vorsiek books but read someplace that the barrels were blue and the frames were colored from case hardening.  I'd rather just line the barrel and get some vintage wood for it, but I think that new wood is my only option so maybe I'll dump way more money in it than it will be worth and do a pretty complete restore job.  The falling block is awfully loose but I think I could set the barrel back a tad in the relining process and cure that.  My homemade firing pin wants to hang up on both opening and closing, so maybe I will play with a light firing pin spring inside the falling block.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
uscra112
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4079
Location: Switzerland of Ohio
Joined: May 7th, 2007
Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #12 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 10:18am
Print Post  
Before you go hunting for alternate wood for it, take what you've got and run it through a dishwasher, using trisodium phosphate (find it in the paint dept. at Tru Value Hardware) and the hottest water you can set for.  This is the modern equivalent of the oldtimers' trick of boiling the wood in a TSP solution. You will be amazed how much dirt and old oil it will get out.  Dry for a week, glue up any cracks with PVA, then refinish with ordinary boiled linseed oil.  The 932 in my picture got that treatment, and it improved from looking like junk to tolerably nice.    I've done at least half a dozen stocks this way.  Does no harm to the wood, or the dishwasher.
  

<div class=
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JCHannum
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 435
Location: Toledo
Joined: Aug 8th, 2007
Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #13 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 11:35am
Print Post  
I would be interested in more details regarding the 1932 converted to 32 S&W centerfire. I have an H&A 932 rifle in worse shape, a supply of 32 S&W short ammo and an orphan Remington 32 RF barrel that I have been considering bringing together.
  

Jim H.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
graduated peep
Ex Member


Re: Hopkins & Allen 922
Reply #14 - Jan 21st, 2014 at 12:45pm
Print Post  
uscra112 wrote on Jan 21st, 2014 at 10:18am:
Before you go hunting for alternate wood for it, take what you've got and run it through a dishwasher, using trisodium phosphate (find it in the paint dept. at Tru Value Hardware) and the hottest water you can set for.  This is the modern equivalent of the oldtimers' trick of boiling the wood in a TSP solution. You will be amazed how much dirt and old oil it will get out.  Dry for a week, glue up any cracks with PVA, then refinish with ordinary boiled linseed oil.  The 932 in my picture got that treatment, and it improved from looking like junk to tolerably nice.    I've done at least half a dozen stocks this way.  Does no harm to the wood, or the dishwasher.   

Does your wife share your opinion about not doing harm to the dishwasher ?? Grin
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint