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Bronzeback
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Targetspot Scope Question
Jan 17th, 2014 at 7:58pm
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Greetings all,
  After stalking this forum for so long I feel like I kinda know some of the more regular posters here. Sorry to start out with questions as my maiden voyage but here goes.
  I've got a Lyman super Targetspot 20x scope, that I never mounted, with an early Winchester 52 I got awhile back. I always preferred shooting it with iron sights, in this case with the original (I think) vernier style peep and lyman hooded front sight, but my eyesight has made that very difficult in the last year or so. So I got the scope out and when I stood back to admire it I noticed that the mounting screw/thumb wheel was not there on the rear mount. Of course the screw itself was snapped flush with the surface of the mount but I'm sure I'll be able to finesse it out without damage.  The real problem is finding something to replace it. "The" scope service that bought out Lymans stock is a no-go unless I send it to them and it took a few months just to get that answer. The nut is beveled to almost a thin edge where it contacts the mount for better purchase on the mounting block and although I had quite a bit of scrap scope mounts and such of different decades I had nothing close.   So finally the question...
Have any of you rigged something up from parts cannibalized off of something else or have any ideas on what to try to get this thing mounted? I have been looking around for quite some time and have a ridiculous amount of hours and miles of gun show walking  (always cost me money) into trying to find the original parts. But I just realized I don't care a bit if it's original as long as it looks decent and and works.  Any ideas would be appreciated.
  
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418Steve
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #1 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 8:27am
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I have a similar problem just not quite so bad. A Lyman STS 25X.  Bought it to put on my Win. 52B. Went to take the mount screws apart just to clean out the old oil and re-lube.  The rear one won't come out. It works and moves enought to let me get it on the gun and tighten it up, but must be bent as I can't get it all the way out.  I left it as is rather than break it.  Haven't found a replacement in a years worth of halfhearted looking with the scope guys and gun shows.  I think next up is someone like OutBack Gun parts or one of the sight collectors who might have some scope parts.  If you find a source, let us (me)  know
  
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Redwing
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #2 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 11:45am
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Hi there !!!

There are a number of good shop's that will build custom (threaded) screw's and such !!!  Much faster !!!  Search/Google for them... I remember seeing add's in the old SSE for help on this problem... Get/make a sketch of what you need !!!

Good luck !!!     Undecided

Ed."
  
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Bronzeback
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #3 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 12:30pm
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418Steve, I'll be sure to post my solution if found. Can anyone confirm whether the rear mounting screw/nut assembly(the mount ring with the click adjuster) is the same as the front mounting assembly on a Targetspot scope so I could just have some copies of the front made?  How about someone who happens to have a Targetspot and a similar external adjustable scope like a Unertl that knows if the mounting nut is likely to work if I purchased parts for them.
  
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westerner
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #4 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 12:52pm
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I have a Target Spot that had a broken stud. Cant remember how I fixed it. Will take a look when I get out to the shop. Front and rear mounts should be the same I would think. 

   Joe.
  

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pmcfall
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #5 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 1:34pm
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I had a similar problem with a Fecker.  Dan Zimmerman of DZ Arms fixed up it perfectly.  Can't remember what it cost but not much.
Phil
  
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JackHughs
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #6 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 1:40pm
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It's been a really long time since I've had to deal with broken attachment screws on Lyman and Unertl mounts so I can't remember the exact repair process.  But, the complicating factor in repair is that these screws are captive - they're not made to simply unscrew from the mounts.

JackHughs
  

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Bronzeback
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #7 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 2:40pm
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Thank all for the replies. I did remember that the screws are captive and not meant to be used in the normal function of the scope. The screw heads are slotted leading folks to believe they turn in the mounting process which probably accounts for the majority of broken studs. I may try to get the front nut/screw off the stud to see about matching it up. I don't want to break the stud but since the front one goes completely through the mount base and gives you access from other side I doubt it will or be to difficult to get out if it did. It shouldn't be to hard to fashion a new screw that would work fine either. I found that the extra long sleeve part of the nut made anything I had found not a good candidate for a reworking. All this for a simple little part that if it wasn't for a cherished gun and valuable scope I would have disappeared into the workshop for a while and simply made it work...apparently I'm losing more than my eyesight.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #8 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 3:34pm
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I've had some scope mounts that the screws actually fell out on their own, so not all are captive. Just the other day I was unloading one of my singles after a show and found the Stevens scope was missing one screw, and the hole was empty. I shook all the cases and found it inside one fortunately!
There are some screws at better hardware stores that are very close I've found, but usually need a die run over the threads to match whatever mount you have. Some are plain, and some galvanized, but surprisingly the galvanized take cold bluing well I've found. Best thing is to take the scope and other screw to a good hardware store, and see if you can determine the thread on it, then you can see what they have for possible screws.
  

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Lefty38-55
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #9 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 3:52pm
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Quote:
I did remember that the screws are captive and not meant to be used in the normal function of the scope.

I tell you, I don't know what kind of early 20th century 'loctite' or glue those studs were put in with, but I've tried everything but a heat hammer (torch Wink ) and I've yet to get one to back off ...
  

All of my single shots shoot one tiny ragged hole with cast bullets ... it's just the following shots that tend to open up my groups Wink ...
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #10 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 8:19pm
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Check to see if your scope has a grub screw vertically bearing on the mount screw.  This can only be seen by looking under the scope tube and can only be removed by taking the mount off the tube. Just checked 2 STS and one had this screw, other did not. They are different mount screws. Looking at the head the grub screw type has a coin slotted outer head to tighten the scope to the block and an inner screw driver slotted screw which the coin slotted "nut" rides on.           (continued)
  
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AndyZ
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #11 - Jan 19th, 2014 at 8:25pm
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(continued)  Trouble with just removing the grub screw is that it may have messed up the threads it bears on.  Then unscrewing the mount screw beats up the threads inside the mount body.  Did this on a Unertl and had to make a new screw one size larger.
       Imagine this is clrar as mud.  Good luck. will answer any questions but about all I know.
  
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Bronzeback
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #12 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 9:42am
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Thanks AndyZ for going through the extra trouble. There is indeed a grub screw (I  call a set screw) under the ring on the rear mount that can only be accessed after the mount is removed from the tube on mine. It feels like there may be one on the front also because of the slight stud movement back and forth that has no resistance for about 1/16 of inch until it gets tight. Still going to be a bugger to get out the snapped one. I usually would remove the set screw and do whatever I could with various tools to clean up the crushed threads but you just can't get to this one. After I choose my method to get some kind of bite on the broken stud I'll just lube it up and work it back and forth to let the usual sharp edges left after the original drilling and tapping in the bottom of the set screw hole clean some of thread damage from the set screw. Being a much softer metal than the screw I'm not counting on a lot of help and run the risk of a fragment from the mount body lodging in the threads also. I do like a challenge but still wish this was a buddies scope instead of mine Smiley
  
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westerner
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #13 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 7:14pm
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Looked at my scope. Darned if I know how I did it. One of the screw heads has a hole in it. Must have drilled it through and fastened a stud to the screw head?  The repaired screw is on the front mount. The screw hole goes through the mount. My scope is a Target Spot. Might be different than a STS.

       Joe.
  

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418Steve
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Re: Targetspot Scope Question
Reply #14 - Jan 20th, 2014 at 8:39pm
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Holy cow guys--What info!  Glad I got smart for once in my life and left well enough alone (never heard a set screw called a "grub screw" either).  I think I'll continue to leave well enough alone too--my STS has survived some 50 to 60 years without me mucking with it in the last 2 years I've owned it, so maybe it'll survive for my son and grandsons another 50 or more years!  Think I'll come here for my vintage scope questions in the future for sure
Thanks again even though I didn't start the thread.

Steve
  
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