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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Design of reduced capacity cases. (Read 17411 times)
Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #30 - Jan 5th, 2014 at 8:02pm
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Dave, Frank -
GOOD ideas - I'd read decades ago about someone using tubes to bring the flame to the powder (and in one case to provide top (not bottom of case) ignition.  Seemed like a lot of work.

.223 cases (and .380 auto) are both (sized) 0.375" in diameter.  They will, of course, fit inot the .375 Win and .375 H&H cases.   

JoeB's suggestion might be played with if refined a little.

The above pictures of 'shimming' the case from the inside may be what he was referring to.

Attached is a picture of two .375 diameter bullets; one ready to fire, one has been fired.  Not saying it was sane, safe nor well thought through.  Just outside the box.   

I'll be off line for a week or so (except for a minute or two now and then), so the experiment is on hold here.
  

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joeb33050
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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #31 - Jan 6th, 2014 at 4:31am
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1/4" "K" copper tubing, OD = .375", ID = .305", comes in coil, but would straighten pretty easily in short lengths
or
ACR straight copper tubing, refrig & AC, 3/8" od, .030" wall

Either would fit in .375 H&H cases, length would determine seating depth of the bullet, = bullet base stops on mouth end of copper tubing. This would decap with a Lee 22 cal decapping rod, no need to take the tubing out of the case.

With the case mouth expanded, either would fit in 30-06 cases. FL size cases after installing tube.  Seating depth could be set ? with part of a 5.7X28 case turned/filed to .306? set on top of the tubing/soldered to the tubing.  This combination would also allow decapping with Lee 22 decapping rod.

However. If this is about reduced capacity cases, I have pretty convincing data suggesting that reduced capacity cases do not improve accuracy with cast bullets all that much.
I have fired tens of thousands of 30-06 cartridges with 9-12 grains of Unique and very acceptable accuracy.

Same with 300 Win Mag

Or, reducing volume with COW or grex or sawdust or Knurlman powder gives acceptable accuracy.

and
Step-necked cases allow no-sizing and finger-seating bullets to the step/stop.

Any comments from J. Louis or BP or that Kaires guy?
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #32 - Jan 6th, 2014 at 6:19am
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The tubing would work with the 375 Win. as it could be pressed in and soldered (if needed, which would not allow corrosive elements between it and the case.  But the .375 diameter tubing would be way too small inside the body of the .375 H&H.
  

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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #33 - Jan 6th, 2014 at 6:38am
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Cat_Whisperer wrote on Jan 6th, 2014 at 6:19am:
The tubing would work with the 375 Win. as it could be pressed in and soldered (if needed, which would not allow corrosive elements between it and the case.  But the .375 diameter tubing would be way too small inside the body of the .375 H&H.

Too small for what?
Why solder, it ain't going anywhere?
It's big enough to take up room, to decap.
It may expand to the walls of the case.
The tubing or the 223 cases work in my 375 H&H cases.
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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #34 - Jan 6th, 2014 at 10:37am
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Back in 1991 my friend and I tried to do the .223 case inside a 30-06 and 30-40 Krag to be used in a No.1 Ruger and a No.3...our intention was to bring more people into the breech seating with factory rifles..hopefully to bring more people to the matches

We used Carmichael's idea of a case in a case....
IIRC we were using Unique powder..Too long ago to remember , but maybe around 5-6 grs with a RCBS 30-180-sp with the gas check machined off

Didn't work for us......

First shot was fine, second shot we could not de-cap the primer..I took some of the cases to work where I had access to a metalographer, we cut the cases in half and the .223 case inside was collapsed...I have pictures to document this...but will not post them...I don't want my info ending up in someones book
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #35 - Jan 6th, 2014 at 12:35pm
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Good info.  Understand the collapse.
My preference is to machine it after casting it full of tin.
thanks.
  

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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #36 - Jan 7th, 2014 at 8:19pm
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I have seen ads In Handloader Mag. for steel case heads with brass body screwed together. Would it be possible to cut off a case and fine thread inside of case and turn a base that extends into case
and thread together to reduce volume.
Dales
  
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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #37 - Jan 7th, 2014 at 8:54pm
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I remember seeing that add but, it was quite a while back. 

Yes, what you suggest could be done. I'd make the heads out of SS. I wouldn't cut the case on the head end as that end would give you the most strength and best diameter for threading and then cut it to length.

Frank
« Last Edit: Jan 7th, 2014 at 9:05pm by frnkeore »  

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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #38 - Jan 7th, 2014 at 9:20pm
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I have not seen it mentioned so I thought I had better add this. When the capacity of the case goes down the charge must also go down or the pressures will rise beyond that which is required (or wise) for cast bullet use.
  
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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #39 - Jan 7th, 2014 at 10:05pm
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Sounds like some reinventing of the wheel is being attempted.

If you've got a copy of Hoyem's The History And Development Of Small Arms Ammunition Volume Four, look on page 36 and you'll find a cartridge called the .40-70 Remington Reloadable, which is described as a .40-70 Sharps case with a screw-on steel head.

And if you go to pages 206-207 of the same book, you'll see a patent application filed on February 4, 1874 by Frank W. Freund, of Denver, Colorado Territory, that looks like it could be an interesting way of making a reduced capacity cartridge (for black powder anyway).

  

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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #40 - Jan 12th, 2014 at 8:50pm
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Quarter_Bore wrote on Jan 7th, 2014 at 9:20pm:
I have not seen it mentioned so I thought I had better add this. When the capacity of the case goes down the charge must also go down or the pressures will rise beyond that which is required (or wise) for cast bullet use.


Good point.  And, that is part of MY objective, to be able to use minimal charges for target loads (within reason - 100 AND 200 yards).   

I want to 'tune' the case capacity to accommodate minimal accurate charges.
  

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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #41 - Jan 12th, 2014 at 10:03pm
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Why Not just machine a pice of Brass to the large case in question....and then machine the inside to the capacity that you would like to work with?
Doesn't seem like it would be too hard to make one?
I'll have to try it sometime. 

Terry Smiley
  

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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #42 - Jan 13th, 2014 at 8:07am
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Maybe I'm preaching to the choir.
But, I have a word of warning about brass tubes used this way.
I have seen what happens when a case body seperates from a case head upon firing.
The case body is driven into the bore, still gripping the bullet.
This causes an over-pressure condition which then proceds to dis-assemble the firearm into individual atoms.
I have seen it and it is not pretty!
I can see the same dangerous potential here with the brass tube.
I just want to see everyone have a long healthy life with all the parts that they were born with.
OK, I'm done now,
Dave
  

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Re: Design of reduced capacity cases.
Reply #43 - Jan 13th, 2014 at 8:53am
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I’m kind of with broken arrow on this one. I also have seen what happens when tubing is used. Many of our newer members weren’t shooting when basic cases weren’t available guys who wanted to shoot say, 45-100 used to take 45-70 heads turn down the heads and solder tubing to them and trim them to length. It is still recommended as the only way to make some shells In Donnelly. I have seen cases split ends separate and in one case it contributed to a rifle coming apart catastrophically. 
  Secondly, if the body is threaded perfectly and the thread is 100% thread and the case is perfectly sized to the chamber then when the round is fired and the case expands, gas will escape through the threaded portion of the case. 
  It just doesn’t seem like a good idea to me. Rocky Mountain Cartridge, while a more expensive option, at least gives a solid case to work with.

40 Rod 
  
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