ASSRA Forum - "Wind"

ASSRA Forum › General › General Discussion › "Wind"

(Moderator Group: Moderator)

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Page Index Toggle

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5

Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies)

"Wind" (Read 22390 times)

joeb33050 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2613 Location: Marathon, FL Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #15 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:43pm	Print Post
	jeffer1942 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 2:27pm: Joe: You manage to come up with all kinds of theory. How about real world experience? I have not noticed your name anywhere listed in a competitive match report, nor have you posted your own targets to prove some of your cockamamy ideas. Put yourself behind a rifle, do some real world testing and then come back here with your results. Until then, it's all horsefeathers! Tell us how you feel about male gynecologists, astronomers, particle physicists, non-flying aircraft designers, football coaches and historians. I would wager that I've fired more rifle shots in testing in the past year than you have. Also in the past 53 years.


	IP Logged

joeb33050 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2613 Location: Marathon, FL Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #16 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:49pm	Print Post
	I'll tell you what amazes me. I might spend weeks or months, dozens or hundreds of hours, working on a topic. Several to many drafts of the article. Up it goes, and the attacks begin. Immediately. I offer the workbooks supporting these articles, and as far as I can recall, not once has any member of this forum requested a workbook. The attackers don't have to read the aricle, or the supporting data and calculations. Either this site is populated by the some of the most brilliant men on earth, or...


	IP Logged

Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3874 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #17 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:58pm	Print Post
	joeb33050 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:49pm: I'll tell you what amazes me. I might spend weeks or months, dozens or hundreds of hours, working on a topic. Several to many drafts of the article. Up it goes, and the attacks begin. Immediately. I offer the workbooks supporting these articles, and as far as I can recall, not once has any member of this forum requested a workbook. The attackers don't have to read the aricle, or the supporting data and calculations. Either this site is populated by the some of the most brilliant men on earth, or... It just may be either: a) that you have a real difficulty in communicating your ideas clearly; or b) that your ideas sound good to yourself but when tested by others lack common sense.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
	WWW IP Logged

BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: "Wind" Reply #18 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 4:24pm	Print Post
	joeb, If I'm trying to "catch a fish" so to speak, and the "fish aren't biting", I can't blame "the fish" for my failure to attract them to the "bait" and get them to take "the hook". If I don't alter my approach, that's my own fault and mine alone. So I could then alter my "presentation", or change to a "bait" that is more realistic and acceptable. If I don't make modifications, I'll go home empty handed. You are, of course, always free to do as you please.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
	IP Logged

joeb33050 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2613 Location: Marathon, FL Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #19 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 4:37pm	Print Post
	Cat_Whisperer wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:58pm: joeb33050 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:49pm: I'll tell you what amazes me. I might spend weeks or months, dozens or hundreds of hours, working on a topic. Several to many drafts of the article. Up it goes, and the attacks begin. Immediately. I offer the workbooks supporting these articles, and as far as I can recall, not once has any member of this forum requested a workbook. The attackers don't have to read the aricle, or the supporting data and calculations. Either this site is populated by the some of the most brilliant men on earth, or... It just may be either: a) that you have a real difficulty in communicating your ideas clearly; or b) that your ideas sound good to yourself but when tested by others lack common sense. How can anyone test the ideas without the supporting work-the workbooks. You're not thinking clearly, again. You can't attack it if you don't understand it.


	IP Logged

craigd Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2047 Location: midwest Joined: Feb 22^nd, 2009	Re: "Wind" Reply #20 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 5:48pm	Print Post
	joeb33050 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 4:37pm: ....You're not thinking clearly, again. You can't attack it if you don't understand it. Maybe this could work both ways. Some folks might put a bunch of time, more than to write an article, learning how to shoot their way. Maybe understanding the variables, not liking them, and putting that into words might make for good reading. Take this topic, does it matter if it's shooting for group or score.


	IP Logged

Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3874 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #21 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 6:42pm	Print Post
	joeb33050 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 4:37pm: Cat_Whisperer wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:58pm: joeb33050 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:49pm: I'll tell you what amazes me. I might spend weeks or months, dozens or hundreds of hours, working on a topic. Several to many drafts of the article. Up it goes, and the attacks begin. Immediately. I offer the workbooks supporting these articles, and as far as I can recall, not once has any member of this forum requested a workbook. The attackers don't have to read the aricle, or the supporting data and calculations. Either this site is populated by the some of the most brilliant men on earth, or... It just may be either: a) that you have a real difficulty in communicating your ideas clearly; or b) that your ideas sound good to yourself but when tested by others lack common sense. How can anyone test the ideas without the supporting work-the workbooks. You're not thinking clearly, again. You can't attack it if you don't understand it. It is the responsibility of the author to present clear, well organized material. When a large part of the readership doesn't understand what you're saying, you've failed to communicate clearly. When a goodly number of your audience disagrees with you, you simply blame them for not understanding and call them noodleheads. If you were only reasonable you would agree with me.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
	WWW IP Logged

boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7540 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #22 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 8:20pm	Print Post
	I have read Warren Pages book, nowhere does he say wind is not important. Anybody who thinks wind is not important in 200 yard cast bullet shooting has either never shoot 200 yard matches or was not paying attention to results when shooting 200 yard matches. Boats


	IP Logged

QuestionableMaynard8130 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4144 Location: Benton Harbor MI Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #23 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 8:39pm	Print Post
	Joe's work may make a lot of valid sense or at least enough for rational discussion, to his fellow statistical analysis's who speak and understand his lingo. However it seems that few of us here have the background to comprehend. To me/us(?) it seems that he makes some broad and on occasion challenging statements, but based on his own selected and defined criteria phrased in nearly incomprehensible (to me at least) math/science lingo. I simply do not understand what he is saying well enough to know if its valid or he's talking through his hat. I mean no disrespect of him or his efforts at all. but its like some outer space alien coming down and haranguing me in his language and method of communication. If he cannot speak in my language, nor I understand his, its all "xztplqtsk". If he keeps chanting buzzing whistling at me I may just walk away or get upset and pick up the rotten tomatoes. to quote the old movie sheriff, "what we have here is a failure to communicate" think I'll go boil some eggs

	sacred cows make the best burger
	IP Logged

jeffer1942 Senior Forum Member ASSRA Target Sales Offline Posts: 282 Location: Chicago North suburb Joined: May 31^st, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #24 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 8:59pm	Print Post
	"Tell us how you feel about male gynecologists, astronomers, particle physicists, non-flying aircraft designers, football coaches and historians. I would wager that I've fired more rifle shots in testing in the past year than you have. Also in the past 53 years." Joe: To the first part of the quoted statement I say "Whaaa???" To the second part I say: show us some targets that support your statements. Show us some match results. There are those who theorize and never publish repeatable results. You have done neither. The amount of work you put into these discussions are commendable but ultimately are not practical for the most part. Lastly, I don't know how many shots you have fired this past year cause you never picture your results and frankly, I don't care. And, by the way, I both test and compete. Currently hold the ASSRA 100 yd. Affiliated Club Record for smallest 5 shot group (Rimfire) .2368


	IP Logged

Cat_Whisperer Frequent Elocutionist Offline No 1, 9.3x74R Posts: 3874 Location: Mountains of Virginia Joined: Apr 17^th, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #25 - Jan 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm	Print Post
	joeb33050 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:49pm: I'll tell you what amazes me. I might spend weeks or months, dozens or hundreds of hours, working on a topic. Several to many drafts of the article. Up it goes, and the attacks begin. Immediately. ... It shouldn't amaze you. The amount of time and effort you've expended means NOTHING. What is important is what you say and how (in this case) you've made some bazar statements. What is important is that you've made both personal attacks on folks that disagree with you and broad derogatory remarks about most of us here. What is MOST important is that WE learn to communicate - one simple principle at a time. Ball is in your court.

	Cat Whisperer (trk) Chief of Smoke Pulaski Coehorn Works and Skunk Works Drafted May 1970, Retired Maj. U.S.Army assra #9885
	WWW IP Logged

joeb33050 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2613 Location: Marathon, FL Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #26 - Jan 2^nd, 2014 at 4:50am	Print Post
	boats wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 8:20pm: I have read Warren Pages book, nowhere does he say wind is not important. Anybody who thinks wind is not important in 200 yard cast bullet shooting has either never shoot 200 yard matches or was not paying attention to results when shooting 200 yard matches. Boats Warren states his opinion in the quote. It's as clear as can be. If accuracy is a function of "Wind" = conditions, equipment and skill, the numbers tell me that "Wind" is the least important of the three. Neither Warren nor I said that wind was "not important". What the numbers tell us, what Warren seems to reinforce, is that wind drift and "Wind" are of lesser importance, and that maybe emphasis and time would be better spent on equipment or skill. If your Knurlman mountain carbine shoots 4" 3 shot 50 yard groups, there are a number of actions that may be taken to improve accuracy. Doping the wind should NOT be top on the list.


	IP Logged

joeb33050 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2613 Location: Marathon, FL Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #27 - Jan 2^nd, 2014 at 4:57am	Print Post
	Cat_Whisperer wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 9:41pm: joeb33050 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 3:49pm: I'll tell you what amazes me. I might spend weeks or months, dozens or hundreds of hours, working on a topic. Several to many drafts of the article. Up it goes, and the attacks begin. Immediately. ... It shouldn't amaze you. The amount of time and effort you've expended means NOTHING. What is important is what you say and how (in this case) you've made some bazar statements. What is important is that you've made both personal attacks on folks that disagree with you and broad derogatory remarks about most of us here. What is MOST important is that WE learn to communicate - one simple principle at a time. Ball is in your court. Here's the ball. Tell me what/which statements are bizarre. Let's take it one step at a time.


	IP Logged

joeb33050 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 2613 Location: Marathon, FL Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: "Wind" Reply #28 - Jan 2^nd, 2014 at 5:07am	Print Post
	jeffer1942 wrote on Jan 1^st, 2014 at 8:59pm: "Tell us how you feel about male gynecologists, astronomers, particle physicists, non-flying aircraft designers, football coaches and historians. I would wager that I've fired more rifle shots in testing in the past year than you have. Also in the past 53 years." Joe: To the first part of the quoted statement I say "Whaaa???" To the second part I say: show us some targets that support your statements. Show us some match results. There are those who theorize and never publish repeatable results. You have done neither. The amount of work you put into these discussions are commendable but ultimately are not practical for the most part. Lastly, I don't know how many shots you have fired this past year cause you never picture your results and frankly, I don't care. And, by the way, I both test and compete. Currently hold the ASSRA 100 yd. Affiliated Club Record for smallest 5 shot group (Rimfire) .2368 I'd bet that you say "Whaaa?" a lot. Except for a couple of times at the Florida Scheutzen Society, 350 miles away, I haven't shot in competition since moving to the Keys in 2000. The closest range, 100 yards, is 100 miles from home. Prior to 2000 I was a fairly active competitor bench and offhand. If you're interested, get out the Journals and get to work. None of which touches the point. Competitive ranking has absolutely nothing to do with technical shooting matters. My ability to analyze shooting data and draw conclusions has little to do with shooting, less to do with scores, nothing to do with competitive ranking. Baby doctors don't have to be women, astronomers don't have to be astronauts, football coaches don't have to be and generally aren't/weren't top players. Why do I feel like I'm talking to a stone?


	IP Logged

colo native Oldtimer Offline Posts: 760 Location: Barren Ridge, Va Joined: Dec 27^th, 2007	Re: "Wind" Reply #29 - Jan 2^nd, 2014 at 7:35am	Print Post
	Lets change the topic, how bout Bigfoot, wind is dieing aw slow death,,,


	IP Logged

Page Index Toggle

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

« Board Index ‹ Board Top

Top

ASSRA Forum » Powered by YaBB 2.6.12!
YaBB Forum Software © 2000-2024. All Rights Reserved.

Valid XHTML

Valid CSS

Powered by Perl

Source Forge

Page completed in 0.9385 seconds.