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RoyB
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38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:44am
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I've been shooting 38-55 with cast bullets for a couple years now. I have half a dozen rifles in this chamber. We are all aware of the great accuracy potential of this round.
I have a number of molds as the bore diameters vary wildly. My most recent mold, .380 / 255g from Accurate Molds is an extremely accurate bullet even out of the rifles with .375 bores. 
But my recent accuracy success of a 219 Zipper with Jacketed Bullets has caused me to wonder if the 38-55 would even be more accurate with a jacketed bullet.
What say you....anyone have any experience wandering down this path?
Recommendations on a J-Bullet?
  

Roy B
Dartmouth, MA
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SSShooter
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #1 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:55am
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Hornady makes a 0.375" jacketed hunting bullet. However, can't think of any other reason to have a jacketed bullet as I know of no competition in which, 1.) a 38-55 would be competitive, and, 2.) a jacketed bullet would be is legal. That said, you can load them up with 3031 and such powders to go about as fast as your shoulder will allow in modern rifles. Tried that in my 1895 Marlin chambered in 38-56. Its a pretty heavy rifle at almost 10# and I've found it quite uncomfortable to shoot with the bullet going over 2000fps.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #2 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 7:47am
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My 1894 Winchester will shoot factory 255 grain ammo into 1 1/2" groups at 50 yds with iron sights. The groove diameter is about .379, well over the bullet diameter so it is surprisingly accurate with jacketed bullets. I tried cast bullets but they won't chamber at .380 diameter and I'm not about to modify the chamber on a 95 year old collectable gun.

Barnes is about the only one making the proper jacketed bullets for the 38/55. The 220 grain Hornady may work but it is intended for the higher velocities of the 375 Winchester.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #3 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 10:11am
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SSShooter wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:55am:
However, can't think of any other reason to have a jacketed bullet...


I can--a pitted bore.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #4 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 10:17am
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Deadeye Bly wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 7:47am:
Barnes is about the only one making the proper jacketed bullets for the 38/55. The 220 grain Hornady may work but it is intended for the higher velocities of the 375 Winchester.


Best jacketed .375 bullet I ever used was Hawk's 250g. flat-point.  Soft copper jacket & weighed to 1/2g uniformity.  This is the most accurate bullet I ever tried in my .35-55 Pacific.  Is this company still in business?
  
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George Babits
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #5 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:14am
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I use a 275 grain FP cast bullet in my Winchester 1894 for hunting.  You can't make a jacketed bullet go any faster than a lead one so, other than having a badly pitted bore, why spend the money for a jacketed bullet.   

I recently bought a Model 1894 Winchester in 38-55 with an "excellent" bore.   The bore was badly pitted.  I scrubbed and scrubbed for three days, decided it wouldn't work with cast bullets; priced jacketed bullets ($0.65 each); and said to heck with that!  Called the dealer told him what I thought of his "excellent" bore, and returned the rifle.  I noticed that he relisted it with an "excellent" bore.  He is no longer on my list of approved dealers.

George
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #6 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:27am
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One thing to consider when shooting jacketed bullets in a gun chambered for .38-55 is the age of the gun. Pre smokeless era barrels are softer steel, and don't hold up well to a diet of jacketed bullets. These old blackpowder  barrels will wear quicker shooting jacketed bullets, so it should be kept to a minimum if it's an old collectable firearm.
  

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Redsetter
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #7 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:36am
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George Babits wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:14am:
Called the dealer told him what I thought of his "excellent" bore, and returned the rifle.  I noticed that he relisted it with an "excellent" bore.  He is no longer on my list of approved dealers.

George


Does his last name begin with "G"?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #8 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:54am
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Redsetter wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:36am:
George Babits wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:14am:
Called the dealer told him what I thought of his "excellent" bore, and returned the rifle.  I noticed that he relisted it with an "excellent" bore.  He is no longer on my list of approved dealers.

George


Does his last name begin with "G"?


And his first name begin with B? Wink I've purchased from him too!
  

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SSShooter
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #9 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 12:07pm
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Redsetter wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 10:11am:
SSShooter wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 6:55am:
However, can't think of any other reason to have a jacketed bullet...

I can--a pitted bore.

Pitted bore or not, can't shoot a jacketed bullet in competition. At least not one in which a 38-55 rifle might be competitive. For best accuracy when just banging away, shoot whatever works.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Redsetter
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #10 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 12:12pm
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marlinguy wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:27am:
  These old blackpowder  barrels will wear quicker shooting jacketed bullets, so it should be kept to a minimum if it's an old collectable firearm.


This seems quite logical and is what "everybody" says.  I more or less believe it myself.  However, countless untested "truths" have proven un-true when subjected to scientific testing.  Has this "common-sense" theory ever been subjected to comparative testing?  By which I mean firing a large number, say 1000, of cast & jacketed bullets in identical barrels, then measuring them both for bore wear?

I once went looking for the earliest clear statement of this theory.  Earliest I found was in Ideal Handbook #23 (my copy hand-dated 1912).  I suspect it was not based on any kind of comparative testing, but hearsay. During this period, highly erosive powders like Sharpshooter were being used, along with cupro-nickel jackets, & corrosive primers, so these factors alone would contribute to shorter barrel life.
  
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #11 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 12:19pm
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marlinguy wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:54am:
And his first name begin with B? Wink I've purchased from him too!


Must be a different fraudster--certainly no shortage of them!  Initials of the one I had in mind are "J. G."
  
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George Babits
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #12 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 12:33pm
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Well, I wouldn't go so far as to refer to B.G  (yes, correct initials) a "fraudster."  I bought a very nice New York Remington militia carbine from him 3 or 4 years ago and it was better than described.  There was no hassel on returning the rifle, and sending it back and forth cost me no more than going to a gunshow in Missoula.

I have come to the conclusion that finding a Winchester, or most any "sporting" rifle else made for smokless powder between 1898 and 1940 with an "excellent bore,"  is really tough.  The rifle and ammunition manufactures were using the "you don't have to clean" as their biggest selling point; and most "casual" shooters believed them.  Yes, there was no powder fouling, but the corrosive primers still needed to have their residue flushed out.  So a very high percentage of these bores are going to be far from "excellent."   Sellers have all sorts of ways of hedging:  "bore is dark, but rifling is sharp;" some "frosting" in the bore, etc.  Buyer bewear!

George
  
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #13 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 1:10pm
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George Babits wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 12:33pm:
The rifle and ammunition manufactures were using the "you don't have to clean" as their biggest selling point; and most "casual" shooters believed them.  George


Maybe the casual shooters believed that, but there was a tremendous amount written about the necessity for scrupulous cleaning in sporting periodicals & books of the time.  Problem was, it was assumed smokeless powders were the main problem, not the real cause, chlorate primers.  Due to this false assumption, Hoppe's #9, & other "nitro" powers were being used, which did little to dissolve the salt deposited by the primers.

Don't know who B.G. might be, but J.G. is without doubt a fraudster.
  
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #14 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 2:29pm
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Barnes Originals work just fine in my 38-55 chambered WRA 1894 rifle, which has a shotgun butt (1886-model 71 size plate) instead of the standard crescent plate. The old 38-55 Hi-Vel round is easy to duplicate.

  

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