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LONG RANGE
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #15 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 5:52pm
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I think shooting jacketed bullets in a fine single shot rifle such as the CPA or even my Uberti Hiwall is one of the 7 deadly sins. I forget which one.
  
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marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #16 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 7:33pm
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Redsetter wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 12:12pm:
marlinguy wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:27am:
  These old blackpowder  barrels will wear quicker shooting jacketed bullets, so it should be kept to a minimum if it's an old collectable firearm.


This seems quite logical and is what "everybody" says.  I more or less believe it myself.  However, countless untested "truths" have proven un-true when subjected to scientific testing.  Has this "common-sense" theory ever been subjected to comparative testing?  By which I mean firing a large number, say 1000, of cast & jacketed bullets in identical barrels, then measuring them both for bore wear?

I once went looking for the earliest clear statement of this theory.  Earliest I found was in Ideal Handbook #23 (my copy hand-dated 1912).  I suspect it was not based on any kind of comparative testing, but hearsay. During this period, highly erosive powders like Sharpshooter were being used, along with cupro-nickel jackets, & corrosive primers, so these factors alone would contribute to shorter barrel life.


I can't speak for all blackpowder barrels, but I have had quite a bit of experience with early Marlin barrels in both BP and smokeless. I actually have seen the rifling taken out by shooting jacketed bullets in early Marlin repeaters with soft blackpowder barrels. I've also seen a case where a shooter trying to slug a BP 1893 Marlin barrel tore up the rifling with a brass jag that got off center. Amazing how soft the bore was, and how easily he messed it up.
I don't have scientific comparison tests, but I do have some Rockwell tests done to both BP and smokeless early Marlin repeater barrels, which showed a definite harder alloy in smokeless steel marked barrels. It was published in an old copy of "The Marlin Collector" magazine, and I have it around here somewhere.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #17 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 8:35pm
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marlinguy wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 7:33pm:

I actually have seen the rifling taken out by shooting jacketed bullets in early Marlin repeaters with soft blackpowder barrels.


If you're sure the rifling was good in that same barrel before the jacketed bullets were fired in it, that would seem to prove the case.
  
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George Babits
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #18 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 9:36pm
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I don't know anything about Marlins, but when John Shaftanstall was the sole distributor for Shiloh I querried him on the use of jacketed bullets in the Shiloh.  He told me that it was great to use jacketed bullets in the Shilohs because that would take out the rifling in about 5000 rounds and the owner would have to buy another rifle (from him).  To me that said it all, and that was with "new" steels.

Winchester developed their "nickle steel" barrels for smokeless powder and jacketed bullets.  Do you suppose that said anything about using jacketed bullets in the older rifles?

If you want to experiment, get an 1873 Winchester with an excellent bore, and see how many boxes of jacketed bullets it will digest before it becomes a smoothbore.   

Geeze - - -why re-invent the wheel when the manufacturers knew what they were doing over 100 years ago?

George.
  
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craigster
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #19 - Dec 22nd, 2013 at 11:29pm
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Redsetter wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 10:17am:
Deadeye Bly wrote on Dec 22nd, 2013 at 7:47am:
Barnes is about the only one making the proper jacketed bullets for the 38/55. The 220 grain Hornady may work but it is intended for the higher velocities of the 375 Winchester.


Best jacketed .375 bullet I ever used was Hawk's 250g. flat-point.  Soft copper jacket & weighed to 1/2g uniformity.  This is the most accurate bullet I ever tried in my .35-55 Pacific.  Is this company still in business?


(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) They offer both .375 and .377.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 38-55 and jacketed bullets?
Reply #20 - Dec 23rd, 2013 at 12:08am
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When Marlin came out with their "Special Smokeless Steel" barrels, they actually gathered up all the old 1893 Marlin barrels in .32-40 and .38-55 and stamped them with "For Black Powder" on the barrels. These were referred to in catalogs as Grade B Model 1893 Marlins, made especially for black powder and cast lead bullets.
I've no doubt that Marlin knew they were much softer steel than the new smokeless steel barrels.

Here's an excerpt from my 1908 Marlin catalog:
Grade B 1893 Marlin-"Rifles in this grade are made in .32-40 and .38-55 sizes only. They are in every aspect the same as the regular Model of 1893, except the barrels are made of the highest obtainable grade of soft gun barrel steel instead of our "Special Smokeless Steel""
So even in 1908 they knew they needed a different barrel steel for jacketed bullets used in smokeless barrels.
« Last Edit: Dec 23rd, 2013 at 12:21am by marlinguy »  
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