Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Paper patch question (Read 7652 times)
catfish
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 16th, 2013
Paper patch question
Nov 21st, 2013 at 8:36am
Print Post  
Hello everyone,

I have a #2 Remington rolling block that cambers a 38 special cartridge perfectly. Unfortunately the grooves measure .369 cal. Could I set a .358 cal. bullet out long and then paper patch it? Also any suggestions on primer, pistol or rifle, and powder type and amount would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Bill
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JSB30
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 395
Location: Missouri
Joined: Apr 30th, 2011
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #1 - Nov 21st, 2013 at 8:57am
Print Post  
Sounds to me like it would work. Would consider using 148 gr wadcutter as to have lots of bullet shank and use any 38 Special target load from reloading manual at about 750 fps. Might consider trying a hollow base wadcutter as is, it might bump up enough to seal bore.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John in PA
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 577
Location: Hollidaysburg, PA
Joined: Nov 3rd, 2009
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #2 - Nov 21st, 2013 at 4:26pm
Print Post  
One does not need a grooveless bullet to paper patch. Any bullet of the proper diameter can be patched out to bore diameter to experiment with.  (Leave the lube off the grooved bullets when patching however, as it plays hell with getting the patches to stick to the bullet!!)
Softer lead alloy is desirable for BP or equivalent loads.  They can also be sized after the patch has dried thoroughly.  I used to spray patched dried bullets with a teflon spray and then allow it to dry before sizing.
  

John Wells
Hollidaysburg, PA
Peabody and Peabody-Martini's Wanted!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
coljimmy
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 283
Joined: Nov 10th, 2012
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #3 - Nov 21st, 2013 at 6:05pm
Print Post  
Sounds like you have a 38 long (Ballard caliber) or extra long.  The long case is the same as 38 long Colt and the 357 Maximum case is almost identical to the XL case.  My remington measures .364-.3645 land to groove when slugged as it has 5 grooves so cannot get a groove to groove mic with an odd no. of grooves.  I found a 38XL mold on ebay a few years ago which is a heel bullet but a hollow-base inside lubricated bullet worked better.  A chamber cast would tell.  - James
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11462
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #4 - Nov 21st, 2013 at 6:12pm
Print Post  
.
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
coljimmy
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 283
Joined: Nov 10th, 2012
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #5 - Nov 21st, 2013 at 6:22pm
Print Post  
Yep, the rounded corners got me.  Couldnt stay on them reliably with near equal width lands and grooves.
J.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
westerner
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


deleted posts and threads
record holder.

Posts: 11462
Location: Why, out West of course
Joined: May 29th, 2006
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #6 - Nov 21st, 2013 at 6:47pm
Print Post  
Have measured my Remington five groove bores. Micrometer/calipers never touch the rounded corners, if there are rounded corners. Look where the red line is compared to the rounded corners. Not on the rounded corners in the drawing. Will be the same when measuring a bullet or casting.   

     Joe.
  

A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2271
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #7 - Nov 21st, 2013 at 6:55pm
Print Post  
I'm assuming that you are loading with black powder.  If not then ignore my suggestions. Smiley

Does the chamber have any freebore?  If not I'd try a bullet 0.006" under bore ( not groove ) patched with 8 lb Seth Cole paper.   

If it has freebore, then I'd use the same bullet but breech seated.  That works very well in one of my .38-55's.

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
catfish
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 16th, 2013
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #8 - Nov 21st, 2013 at 10:15pm
Print Post  
I get .369 measuring across the corners. using my other calipers with a pointy base, measuring from land to groove I get .365. Actually I used a commercial hollow base wad-cutter to slug the barrel. They are very slippery though, so paper may not stick. I can cast some and not lube them to take care of that. This gun was originally a rim-fire. The parts donor gun was also has a .38 special, or maybe longer chamber, but a 375 bore. Or not. The bore's in such bad shape its hard to tell.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
catfish
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 16th, 2013
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #9 - Nov 21st, 2013 at 10:25pm
Print Post  
The chamber measures 1.185, so it's .035 longer than the .38 special case. Is breech seating a possibility, then?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2271
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #10 - Nov 21st, 2013 at 11:53pm
Print Post  
My paper patched bullets sit a fair distance ahead of the case mouth.  I don't have my notes handy, but it's something like 1/8" inch.

If you wet patch the paper it will stay on the bullet well enough.  You want the patch to come off at the muzzle anyway.   

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bisaacson
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 170
Location: Kailua
Joined: Sep 1st, 2009
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #11 - Nov 22nd, 2013 at 7:55pm
Print Post  
I agree with coljimmy - it looks like you have a CF conversion from a 38 Long RF. The good news is that now you can custom fit your cartridge and bullet, which would be heeled for authenticity and provide you with the pleasures and disadvantages of that period of cartridge development. Several mould makers have appropriate moulds, often oversize for the purpose of working in any manufacturer's gun, as different makers had differing ideas about proper bore size for the old RF cartridges (and chamber size, chamber length, etc. - no SAAMI in those days). My 38 Long RF Forehand & Wadsworth works well with BP and a .375 Old West mould heeled soft lead bullet. Be very conservative if you try smokeless and keep the pressures within the BP range to keep your rifle from developing a larger number of parts and your body from having extra orifices. That said, measuring the chamber length and diameter, seating the bullet you choose (after checking twist) to get the right over-all cartridge length, and working up your load should give you a pretty accurate combination if the barrel is in decent shape. Ought to be fun, too.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
catfish
Participating Member
*
Offline



Posts: 16
Joined: Nov 16th, 2013
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #12 - Nov 23rd, 2013 at 8:38pm
Print Post  
bisaacson,

Yes, I changed the breech block out from another #2.

A heeled bullet is one that has a smaller diameter base, correct?

The .38 extra long listing in cartridges of the world has the bullet at .375 cal. Perhaps there is still lead in the grooves, even after running bronze wool trough it several times.

Bill
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Walter  Matera
Ex Member


Re: Paper patch question
Reply #13 - Nov 24th, 2013 at 4:27pm
Print Post  
Perhaps, but COW isn't a 100% reliable source.  Most of the time it's on the mark but every once in a while it drops the ball.  Close visual inspection is in order.  Consider a borescope?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JS47
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1265
Location: Arizona
Joined: Oct 12th, 2012
Re: Paper patch question
Reply #14 - Nov 28th, 2013 at 11:55pm
Print Post  
I'm not an expert on paper patching but I have done some work with it.  The best paper found to date is velum.  It's the paper engineers use to draw their plans on.  You can usually buy it in tablet form at office supply shops.  Its really tough.  Cut the patch, soak in water until it curls up and lays flat again.  When you roll it on the bullet you really have to work at it to tear it and it shrinks up nice and tight.  I have lubed them with white lithium grease with teflon in spray form.  It worked great in an over sized 45-70 bore.

Shaw
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint