I'm happy to announce two new shooters, equipment lists and scores for this class (I promice that I'll have my rifle early next year).

The results are from the resent Modesto match.

Tradition 28
Equipment and load information

Name   Jerry Hartwig

Rifle/barrel      CPA/ Douglas       Twist       12      Caliber  28/30
                 
Bullet/mold maker        Mos     Alloy ?      Length  ?  Weight  152 gr

Lube      Javelina Schuetzen            Loading method    BS

Powder  4227      Charge  12.4 Grs  Wad   Floral foam/over powder

Primer/make   Remington            Number  2  1/2

Sights:
Iron/make      JH Tube            Rear            Front

Scope/make        Unertl                        Power  20X

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Name   Rich Davis

Rifle/barrel      CPA/Douglas      Twist      12      Caliber 28/38/50
                 
Bullet/mold maker   Mos        Alloy ?      Length ?         Weight 147 gr

Lube      Javelina Schuetzen            Loading method   BS

Powder  300MP                  Charge  12.4      Grs      Wad

Primer/make  Federal                  Number  210M

Sights:  
Iron/make      JH tube            Rear                  Front

Scope/make        Lyman STS                  Power  20X
  
Jerry Hartwig  IS Agg. 494-14 (A pair of 247's) AS Agg. 482-7

Rich Davis  IS Agg. 476-2c  AS Agg. 482-8c

Frank

Rich's case is the same basic case as the 38/50 Ballard. It's necked down to 28 cal. The rules state:

Traditional rifles and sights as defined in both ASSRA and ISSA rules.
All known and documented 28 caliber cartridges, factory or "wildcat", to include the following cartridges.

1. 28/30
2. 32/35 Stevens/Maynard, necked to 28
3. 32 Ideal necked to 28 
4. J. Francis Rabbeth's, Wesson 32 XL necked to 28
5. All 28 calibers listed in F.W. Mann's "The Bullets Flight" 

Quote:


Frank

John,
By the rules agreed on during the discussion of this class. You can use ANY original BP case head as long as you DON'T shorten it. You can even use a shorten case if you can Identify it in a pre 1917 publication.

The 38/50 Ballard is the same length and case head size as the 32 Special, 30/30, 25/35 and 22 Savage HP. There fore, any of those case head stamps WILL qualify as long as they are NOT shorten. You could even use the 7mm Waters.

The 38 XL Ballard would also be eligible to neck down to 28 cal. by using the 357 Maximum case IF you don't shorten it. BUT you can not use a 28 Miller Short or any of the '06-308 size case heads Rimmed or not, 25, 32, 30 Remington, 222 - 223 or even the 225 Win. case heads. You could use the 7mm TCU by setting the barrel back .15 and using the rimmed Max case.

I hope this clarifies the cartridge rules.

Those are the rules that were agreed on by vote of the people that started the 28 Traditional class. I will not break the rules! If your 28 is a original length, BP case head, it will be eligible also in a Traditional (ASSRA, ISSA, WSU) action.

Frank

PS
If I get enough feed back regarding shoulder angles to bring larger case case heads down to 28 cal. I'll start another discussion to rectify that issue but, the 25/35 only has a 11.5 deg shoulder and much more taper than the 30/30 to reach the start of the shoulder. For now, there are no rules regarding shoulder angles.

The logic was to give modern day experimenters the basic case selection as the golden age experimenters. What I saw in the case of the 28 caliber was that every version, with the exception of Mann's shorten 28/30's used a full length cartridge case.

I don't know which primer the 38 XL used for sure but, I think I have one in my collection. I'll check.

Frank

John,
The calibers listed by me in post #2 are documented wildcat calibers chmbered by Pope, Peterson and other rifle makers of the time.

I researched this caliber for a long time before deciding to build one. If you'll go back to the first discussion, early this year, you find more info regarding calibers. You may have even posted in it but, I'm not positive.

Frank

28/38/50, add your name behind it, if you like.


These larger cases, I don't believe will be the pace setters and will fade out because of it.

The good thing is it will draw more shooters

I believe the competitive cases will be between the 25/20ss (28 Rabbeth) and the 357 Max (28/38 XL), Possibly shorten 28/30 Mann and if a supply of 32 Idea cases where availible, it would be right in there, too.

Frank

Answer this John, in another thread, as the match results is not the place for debates......... What existed first, the 38/50 Ballard or the 30/30? What is the difference in the basic case, regarding head diameter and length?

Did the 38 XL Ballard exist before the 357 Maximum? What is the difference between the case head and length of the 38 XL and the 357 Max.?

Where the gun builders prior to 1917 restricted to how they could design a wildcat cartridge or what they could neck up or down?

The rules were set out long before any match results were turned in, I heard NO complains from ANYONE at that time. The rules are simple, you can use ANY original case head size and length that was used for a BP cartridge, that's all there is to it.

Frank

To begin with, John. I consulted with the gunsmith that chambered the barrel and he agreed with the catridge name.

One reason that I like the cartridges name for their parnent case is that it shows what BP case, it was derived from. There are NO limits to the configuration of cases in the rules, not to mention that the 25/35 was well before 1917 and any gunsmith or rifle builder could have used it and no matter what you think, the 38/50 is a BP case that predates any other .42 diameter case that is 2" long. I don't care what you call your case or what anyone else calls thier case, as long as it is on a standard length BP case, it is eligable, period. Again, if I get enough feed back to change that, I will again start a vote what can be done.

As someone that is always talking about getting people involve in this sport and wanting it to be affordable I'm supprized at your opposition to something that was voted on and that you can't and won't be able to compete in. Is there some other reason for it?

This is the last responce I will address regarding this subject in the ASSRA Match Scores. If you would like to talk futher, on this forum, open another thread! Or contact me by Email or PM.

Frank