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Mick B
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38/56 primer choice
Oct 25th, 2013 at 4:07am
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Experimentation with my CPA Stevens 38/56 continues at a slow pace, I'm using black powder only and breech seating a 20-1 320 gr Paul Jones Spitzer bullet approximately .075" ahead of 62gr of Wano PP ( 2f ). The primer I'm using at present is a CCI BR2 seated through a paper wad.
This load produces groups of between 1" to 1.5" depending on the prevailing conditions.
I am looking for advice as to what other primers I might try to improve on the above efforts. Any other advice re seating depth etc would be greatly appreciated.
Mike.
PS, no mention of the white powder please.
  
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SSShooter
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #1 - Oct 25th, 2013 at 8:40pm
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Can't imagine getting any better than the CCI BR2 primers, though am surprised that you can find them. Am shooting CCI 200 in mine and they work just fine with 56-59gr of 2F Goex or 56-58gr of 1 1/2F Swiss. Every rifle is different, so you will have to work out the seating depth by results on paper.
  

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Mick B
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #2 - Oct 26th, 2013 at 6:16pm
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Thanks for that, perhaps the CCI BR2 primers will prove the best but until I try others I will never know. At $90 per 1000 they are a bit expensive here though. I just cast another batch of bullets in a slightly harder alloy to try, perhaps that will make a difference as well.
Mike.
  
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #3 - Oct 26th, 2013 at 8:22pm
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Have found most any LR primers to work well. I use CCI 200s as they were readily available last year. Have also used Rem 9 1/2s with good results. Groups of 1 - 1 1/2" are just fine for silhouette if that is what you are after and can do the same MOA at 500m. I'm shooting a 355gr bullet in 20-1 at 500m and it works well. But, so do my 340gr & 325gr bullets.
  

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Mick B
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #4 - Oct 27th, 2013 at 11:11pm
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Thanks again
I tried some Federal GM210M primers today under the PJ 320 gr Spitzer bullet with 60 gr of PP Wano. This load gave an average speed of 1321 fps with a spread of 11 fps. Unfortunately the group was 1.990" at 100 meters.
I happen to have some CCI 200 primers so I will try them next. All our shooting at the Canberra black powder club is at 100 meters, with the occasional shoot at 200 m.
I have a 45/90 barrel for the Stevens and the rifle will shoot 1.5" at 100 m easy. I was hoping to get much better accuracy out of the 38/56 barrel, and avoid getting beat up  in the process. In case anyone was wondering why I went to 38/56, instead of 38/55, it was so I did not have to change extractors every time I swapped barrels. Another advantage was that I have a good supply of 45/90 and 45/70 brass for re sizing.
Thanks again.
Mike.
  
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #5 - Oct 28th, 2013 at 8:28pm
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Think I've finally figured out how to shoot a long-range BPCR rifle. Shot the best I've to-date this weekend with a tie for my personal best on Sat and a new high on Sun. My loads are 56gr of Swiss 1 1/2F pushing the BACo 325gr 'Money' bullet for chickens (200m), 57gr with the same bullet for pigs (300m), 57gr pushing a Brooks 340gr bullet for turkeys (385m) and 58gr pushing a BACo 355gr bullet for rams (500m). My experience is that the 38-56 is pretty insensitive to both primer selection and powder. I usually load the same amount of Goex and it shoots about the same.  I've used 215M primers to good effect. Same with the 210. Won some Olde Eynsford this weekend, so will give that a try at some point. Have shot as high as 267 in mid-range. Think it is an accurate cartridge, but not so easy to find the 'magic' mix. Especially if shooting for group size. Mine usually shoots in the high-90s at 200yd in our mid-range matches.
« Last Edit: Oct 28th, 2013 at 8:34pm by SSShooter »  

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Mick B
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #6 - Oct 29th, 2013 at 8:43pm
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Shot it again today in less than perfect conditions, dropped the charge to from 60 to 50 gr just to see what would happen velocity wise. On one load I also changed to CCI 100 LR primers. 
Groups opened up to 2.3" for the CCI 100 LR primers and 2.255" for the CCI BR2's.
Average speed for the BR2's was 1259.6 fps, extreme spread was 28 fps
For the CCI 100 LR's the average was 1250.8 fps, spread was 19 fps, as you said not much difference really.
Tomorrow I will go back to my 62 gr load.
Mike.
  
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #7 - Oct 29th, 2013 at 9:21pm
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In my rifle going above 60gr tends to open the group with both Goex and Swiss. With the 325gr bullet 58gr of Goex is pushing the bullet at 1385fps and the same load of Swiss ups that to 1425fps. I've forgotten the spread, but the Goex was under 20 and the Swiss was a single-digit.
  

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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #8 - Oct 30th, 2013 at 1:04am
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Regarding my reply #6, I meant to say CCI 200 LR primers, not CCI 100 LR. Weather permitting I have another couple of loads to try tomorrow to compare the Fed GM215M primers against the CCI 200 LR's.
Next will be Swiss 1 1/2 and 3f Wano, it just never ends.
Mike.
  
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #9 - Oct 30th, 2013 at 6:41am
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Am also using as many as four (4) 0.060" wads to space my fixed ammo out to get the first driving band into the rifling. With my most accurate loads I am using a 0.060" fiber wad on the powder, followed by 2x 0.060" plastic wads, a 0.030" plastic wad and a 0.022" card wad or newspaper wad (to insure nothing sticks to the base of the bullet). With the 355gr bullet don't use the 0.030" wad. This combination gives some amount of compression on the powder (more with Goex than Swiss). Not overloading the case, getting some compression and spacing the bullet forward into the rifling were the three keys to getting my rifle to shoot well. Now it is up to the nut behind the trigger (me).
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #10 - Oct 30th, 2013 at 8:18am
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I use Federal LP Match primers in my 40-70 with a primer wad in the primer pocket. Seemed to work better than BR2 primers.  Just something to try.

Regards

Brownie
  

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Mick B
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #11 - Oct 30th, 2013 at 11:09pm
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Thanks guys, Today I tried three loads with different primers. Target # 1 was with 62gr PP Wano and using Fed GM215M primers, Average speed was 1332 fps, spread was 100 fps. Group size was 2.070"
Target # 2  was also 62 gr with the CCI 200 LR for an average of 1359 fps and a spread of 25 fps. group size was .590"
Target # 3 was 60 gr of PP Wano using the CCI BR 2 average speed was 1353 fps with a spread of 25 fps, group size was 2.375 with four shots in 1.195".
All targets were with the bullet breech seated approximately .075 ahead of the case. In all cases the powder was topped with two .060" LDPE wads finger seated.
I will re visit the target 2 load again to verify the result, perhaps it was something I ate for breakfast.
Mike.
  
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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #12 - Oct 31st, 2013 at 9:40am
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Once you know on that breakfast thing, be sure to share (though 'roo and koala meat are difficult to find here Wink)
  

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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #13 - Oct 31st, 2013 at 10:51am
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I'm still using my supply of CCI 200 primers. Always work well for mine.
  

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Re: 38/56 primer choice
Reply #14 - Oct 31st, 2013 at 11:45am
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marlinguy wrote on Oct 31st, 2013 at 10:51am:
I'm still using my supply of CCI 200 primers. Always work well for mine.

Indeed......... am into my last 1000 of them so am hoping to find more before next season. They seem to be quite consistent and not as hot as Rem 9 1/2s.

Would be an interesting experiment if the OP would try some fixed ammo for comparison. Put in enough wads that the camming action of his CPA pushes the bullet into the lands in a fashion similar to breech seating. With 62gr of BP that should not be many wads. See how fixed shoots compared to breech seating.
« Last Edit: Oct 31st, 2013 at 11:52am by SSShooter »  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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