Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 32-20 Schuetzen? (Read 14447 times)
broken_arrow
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 204
Location: Lancaster County
Joined: Aug 12th, 2008
32-20 Schuetzen?
Oct 24th, 2013 at 10:14am
Print Post  
Hi guys,
I need educated advice...
I have been offered a Remington rolling block (#1 I think) in 32-20 (Redmen liner)with a 30 inch barrel for a decent price.
Do you think this would be worthwhile for a 200 yard offhand rifle?
I would like to play Schuetzen but as cheaply as possible.
Help me out here.
Thanks,
Dave
  

ASSRA #10186 (10-25-2021)
Every Mighty Oak Was Once A Little Nut That Held Its Ground
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzendave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Retired Ex-Shooter

Posts: 4276
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Joined: Jan 28th, 2005
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #1 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 10:31am
Print Post  
Any single shot can be used as a Schuetzen rifle and .32 calibers are preferred for the 200 yard single shot competitions. Any rifle can be used for offhand however if you wish to develop your offhand skills you also wish to have a rifle designed to fit you and balance well and properly align with your eye and fit your body for offhand shooting.

Key to good offhand shooting is a rear stock that is designed to fit you well. A stock with a cheek piece to properly align your eye to the sights, one canted so it aligns properly across your chest (more stable), one with proper stock drop which means the rifle is positioned to align with your eyesight so that you do not need to lean down or bend your head sideways to look down the sights.

So if it has it's original stock; it can be used to shoot offhand, however it will not be as effective in developing your shooting skills as a rifle customized with a schuetzen stock that helps you shoot offhand better.

Yes you can shoot Schuetzen cheaply but it will be more frustrating to shoot something not properly designed for it.

Learning to shoot offhand fighting your equipment can lead to poor shooting techniques. Sometimes it is better to get good designed equipment and develop more quickly without developing any bad practices as a result of using equipment not designed for the purpose it is being used for.

Of course you can further modify your rolling block to tune it up a bit for offhand shooting. Replace the rear stock and add a palm rest if required.
« Last Edit: Oct 24th, 2013 at 10:36am by Schuetzendave »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Walter  Matera
Ex Member


Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #2 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 11:43am
Print Post  
Good advice.  Must all schuetzen stocks be custom made?   Does any stockmaker have a basic stock for the .22 martini actions that can be adjusted to fit?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 10625
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #3 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 12:18pm
Print Post  
Check the CPA Web site for stock options Walter.

JLouis
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
RCRBanjo
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 114
Joined: Nov 25th, 2009
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #4 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 3:57pm
Print Post  
.32-20 is amazing close to the popular .32 Miller.  Try about 10 gr of 4227 with a 125 gr cast .312 lead bullet and you might be surprised......
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
QuestionableMaynard8130
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4144
Location: Benton  Harbor MI
Joined: Apr 17th, 2004
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #5 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 6:02pm
Print Post  
32 Miller and the current popular iteration of 32-20 loads are high pressure loads.  rifles for those loads MUST be strong enough to handle them safely. 
I have relatively little experience with the rolling block actions. But I rather strongly suspect that, while the rolling block design might work well for a "traditional" 32-20 load at factory pressure level loadings; it would not be a good action to select for the high pressure loads currently in trend in that cartridge or the 32 Miller short variants.   
  I may be wrong but before I hotrodded a 32-20 in a roller I'd have a serious talk with a qualified single shot riflesmith.
While rolling blocks were more common as long range and hunting rifles (as well as military arms), some were customized to create offhand target rifles.  Marcot's book on the sporting and target rolling blocks show excellent photos of several very fine examples.  I am sure there were more of them. 
  I currently have a project for a #2 roller in 25-20ss  "in the mill".  stock selection and creation is just one of the as-yet-unresolved issues.   I do not want to make it so off-hand-exclusive as to preclude other shooting use.
  

sacred cows make the best burger
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7765
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #6 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 7:06pm
Print Post  
32/20's you read about on line are hot rodded special set ups.  Conventional 32/20 is not a 200 yard cartridge.  Stay with the proven 32/40 is my advice.

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
broken_arrow
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 204
Location: Lancaster County
Joined: Aug 12th, 2008
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #7 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 7:53pm
Print Post  
boats wrote on Oct 24th, 2013 at 7:06pm:
32/20's you read about on line are hot rodded special set ups.  Conventional 32/20 is not a 200 yard cartridge.  Stay with the proven 32/40 is my advice.

Boats


But isn't the 32-40 too much for a #1 rolling block?
What does everyone think is the most cartridge that this rifle will handle?
Thanks,
Dave
  

ASSRA #10186 (10-25-2021)
Every Mighty Oak Was Once A Little Nut That Held Its Ground
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ssdave
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2203
Location: Eastern Oregon
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #8 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 8:07pm
Print Post  
I don't have any good pressure data for typical schuetzen .32-40 loadings.  However, my GUESS is that they're below the approximately 35,000 psi that I think a good rolling block action can handle with that size of cartridge.  In fact, I think they'd be quite a bit below it.  If not, the plain base lead bullets would be developing leading problems more than they do at the softness we use.

I'll see if I can run a powley simulation, and look at some other cartridge data that's similar and have a better estimate of the pressure would be.

dave

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
QuestionableMaynard8130
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4144
Location: Benton  Harbor MI
Joined: Apr 17th, 2004
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #9 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 9:40pm
Print Post  
As I recalls the custom sporter rolling blocks shown as schuetzen/ off-hand rifles were usually in 32-40 or 38-55. we are talking lead bullet rifles operating in the velocity ranges usually less then 1500-1600 FPS--to avoid leading.   
  The problem comes from trying to use small capacity cases, long/heavy bullets, and 100% density charges of high energy powders---ergo high pressures.  It will work in a case designed for it, in an action that can handle it safely,  but even the guys doing so with the hot-rod 32-20 have case life issues.
Those old #1 rollers were black powder actions,  as I recall, only the later #5 was a smokeless powder action and even that was for early 1st/2nd gen smokeless.  I'm not sure what the pressure limits are, and there is something about case head size and thrust forces on a breach block that might be another factor to consider.

Finally I simply have not seen that many guys shooting rollers at the schuetzen matches I attend. maybe one or two who use them in the "buffalo" cross stick special fall matches.  There must be a good reason why,  if they made a viable inexpensive entry level schuetzen you'd think you'd see some.  I'm doing mine purely as a fun self-indulgence, with little hopes of it actually being competitive.
  

sacred cows make the best burger
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7765
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #10 - Oct 24th, 2013 at 10:00pm
Print Post  
To be honest I don't know one rolling block from another. I do know 32/20 is not a 200 yard cartridge & 32/40 is the optional 200 yard round

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
frnkeore
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7785
Location: Central Point, OR 97502
Joined: Jun 16th, 2010
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #11 - Oct 25th, 2013 at 2:50am
Print Post  
I wouldn't be afraid to start out with a standard 32/20 rifle for off hand shooting. You should be able to get accuracy similar to 22rf and as we have all seen, the 22rf can at least shoot 246's at 200. Plenty good for OH with light recoil.

You would have a little developement work to do for a accurate load but, that's about all. Breech seat the rifle and I will suggest the Lyman 311410 mold for a bullet. Try B'eye, Unique, B'dot, HS6 and AA#7 for powders.

Frank
  

ASSRA Member #696, ISSA Member #339
Back to top
YIMAIM  
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7765
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #12 - Oct 25th, 2013 at 6:02am
Print Post  
Frank. Start yes but before long wind will turn you away from the pistol caliber at 200.

We shoot a lot of NRA Lever silhouette. Have used 32/20 now 38/40 for the 100 meter pistol caliber match.   Full rifle event to 200 pistol calibers  are allowed and have tried them.  Don't measure up to 38/55 30/30 and the other Rifle cartridges.   

If you have a 32/20 use it but don't build for 200 with a pistol caliber is my advice

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
QuestionableMaynard8130
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 4144
Location: Benton  Harbor MI
Joined: Apr 17th, 2004
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #13 - Oct 25th, 2013 at 8:33am
Print Post  
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #11 - Today at 2:50am  Quote  "I wouldn't be afraid to start out with a standard 32/20 rifle for off hand shooting"

Please note that Frank stated "standard" 32-20 not the high pressure loads.

Boats,  As I recall from some of your earlier posts, your matches are short timed relay limited are they not?    if so you don't have an option to pick and choose "conditions" as much as we do at most ASSRA matches.   
As with 22 rf shooting, using the "standard" 32-20 loads with their lighter weight bullets wind conditions will be a factor.

Another consideration is whether we are talking about bench rest or offhand shooting or both.   While we all want the most accurate loads possible for any of our matches.  The raw fact is that in offhand shooting "shooter induced angle of dispersion" is often greater than benchrest quality ammo angle of dispersion. 
  If you have a sub-MOA quality load off the bench and shot them in the same rifle offhand you will be stacking a few more MOA dispersion into the equation.  Yes, you might get lucky and have part of the two sources cancel each other out on an occasional shot. But in reality the shooter's personal added dispersion will dominate.   I'd guess that in equal conditions a skilled offhand shooter using lesser quality loads, will always beat a lesser skilled offhand shooter who was using sub-MOA loads.    I think the old timers said the bench shooting is a test of gun and ammo, offhand is a test of the shooter.  We know its a simplification but is is generally accurate I think.

The point to this rambling discourse being that a well built standard 32-20 rifle might be perfectly OK for offhand shooting while being less desirable for bench rest matches.
« Last Edit: Oct 25th, 2013 at 8:55am by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

sacred cows make the best burger
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 4285
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: 32-20 Schuetzen?
Reply #14 - Oct 25th, 2013 at 8:50am
Print Post  
Go to CPA. Paul shows a 205 grain bullet with a fairly large meplat. It is a Hoch mold and should suit you well. Paul usually has these in stock.
40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint