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Mike Gish
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Mistery rifle of the week
Sep 22nd, 2013 at 8:52pm
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Need a little help to identify this rifle. No markings or numbers any where, other than RUNTZ on the lock, and that is a town in northern France or Belgium. A lot of barrel for a .22 lr, bore is pristine, weight is 8.5 #, real nice horn finger grip at the wrist and pop up tang sight. 
When you pull the lever on the fore arm and open the action the barrel lifts out and the fore arm stays attached to the action and butt stock.
The guy I traded the rifle from thought it was German, but I am thinking Belgium maybe 1870's or so.
Checkering and engraving ok, but not real high end.
Any help identifying, would be welcomed.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Mistery rifle of the week
Reply #1 - Sep 22nd, 2013 at 9:01pm
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Neat old rifle. I am thinking German but don't really have a clue.
  
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Walter  Matera
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Re: Mistery rifle of the week
Reply #2 - Sep 22nd, 2013 at 11:21pm
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That kind of action was very common on gauge rifles made by the London makers for big game hunting in India and later on, Africa.  Theirs, though, were usually double barreled.  I remember seeing one in Holland and Holland's basement that was in 8 ga.  Must have been a beast to fire.
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Mistery rifle of the week
Reply #3 - Sep 23rd, 2013 at 2:19am
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Quote:
That kind of action was very common on gauge rifles made by the London makers for big game hunting in India and later on, Africa.  Theirs, though, were usually double barreled.  I remember seeing one in Holland and Holland's basement that was in 8 ga.  Must have been a beast to fire.


What Walter says is true but I think that this is a Belgian made weapon. Thousands of Rook Rifles were built on such actions as complete rifles but also actions only were bought in by many a British gun making company to be barrelled, stocked and finished in their own workshops. Some Belgian factories were tooled up to mass produce these actions and could be made and purchased far cheaper than any British Gunmaker could make them.

Are there any Proof Marks on the water table of the action or on the rear end of the barrel?

Harry
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Mistery rifle of the week
Reply #4 - Sep 23rd, 2013 at 9:57am
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Nice rifle. Do you think it was always .22RF? That arrangement would certainly handle larger calibers. If you removed the horn grip, first impressions would almost argue English. Proof marks would be most interesting, but agree with Harry, probably Belgian. Neat tang sight and looks like excellent set triggers.
Chuck
« Last Edit: Sep 23rd, 2013 at 10:05am by Chuckster »  
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830singleshot
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Re: Mistery rifle of the week
Reply #5 - Sep 23rd, 2013 at 6:45pm
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I can't comment on where it was made but the action style was patented in 1859 by Henry Jones and is commonly known as a Jones Rotary Underlever or Screwgrip.  It became obsolete when faster to operate  snapactions became commonplace.  However, this was and still is a very strong action design for break open guns and was used in powerful(for the day) black powder rifle cartridges and was used in double rifles as well.
I am sure the rifle has been lined and converted to .22 rimfire and did not leave the factory in that configuration.
  
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Walter  Matera
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Re: Mistery rifle of the week
Reply #6 - Sep 24th, 2013 at 11:38am
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But even so, it is certainly a very useful shooter in its current chambering.  I imagine you will have loads of fun with it.  It could easily become a walking out rifle if I lived in the country.  Beautiful.
  
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Mike Gish
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Re: Mistery rifle of the week
Reply #7 - Sep 24th, 2013 at 4:04pm
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Thanks for all the input.
Harry, I am not sure what the water table is, but there are no proof marks, letters or numbers any where on this piece, I know it would help if there were.
Chuck, the set triggers are great nice and light like I like em. That horn grip and the curly behind it are all one piece, do not think it was a later add on, the rear of the triggergard is notched for it. As near as I can tell this barrel has always been a.22,  can not fine any trace of a liner, I will bring it out to the next shoot when you get back from your fishing trip.
I am fairly sure it was made as a .22, the fireing pin comes into the breach face off center, but the whole action sure looks like over kill, unless there was another barrel at one time, it pops out real easy.

  
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Walter  Matera
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Re: Mistery rifle of the week
Reply #8 - Sep 24th, 2013 at 6:36pm
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Actually, that would be a pretty good idea, a gun with interchangeable barrels.  We all know about them in the target games and several companies have been pushing them for hunting.  And since it's not exactly rocket science I see no reason why it couldn't have been done over a hundred years ago.  I wonder what the other choices might have been . . .
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Mistery rifle of the week
Reply #9 - Sep 25th, 2013 at 3:14am
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Mike, the 'Water Table' is the flat area in front of the standing breach into which the locking lugs penetrate for the Jones style side lever. It abuts to the flats on the underside of the barrel at the breech end. Your picture 0333 shows it exposed. Almost all break open rifles and shotguns are proof marked there and also on the flats on the rear underside of the barrel.
Why the name water table, I haven't a clue. Smiley

Harry
  
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