ASSRA Forum - Low wall receiver stamp question (12/2013 update)

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Low wall receiver stamp question (12/2013 update) (Read 10881 times)

Redsetter Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3468 Location: New York Joined: Aug 6^th, 2013	Re: Low wall receiver stamp question Reply #15 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 12:11pm	Print Post
	[quote author=6F5456646C52554F5E49483B0 link=1377044689/13#13 date=1377181239] The rifle has no oval proof stamp on the receiver, barrel, top or bottom. No "P" stamp or anything to indicate it was barreled out side the factory. Could a gun sold to (or stolen by) an employee leave the factory without Win. proofs? Not that I've ever heard of such a thing. Twice I bid on SS in Rock Island auctions, bidding slightly more than a well-known SS dealer told me would be absolutely TOP retail; guns went for about twice my bids! After that, I recognized R.I. was way out of my league. If I could take photos as good as yours, I'd set myself up as a professional photog.


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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Low wall receiver stamp question Reply #16 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:20pm	Print Post
	From THE WINCHESTER BOOK by Madis: Quote: ...The Winchester proof mark was first used for all except caliber .22 rifles in early 1905, when it was applied to the barrels only. Caliber .22 rifle barrels began to receive the proof mark in 1908, and in 1908 all guns were marked on both barrel and receiver with the Winchester Proof Mark. All barrels and receivers which were furnished for fitting by outside parties were marked with the mail order proof, a letter P in an oval, from 1912 and on. also Quote: ASSEMBLERS MARK-NUMBERS FROM 1 TO 200 WITH DASH..... The assemblers mark numbers with a dash directly underneath the numbers were 0.070" tall.
	« Last Edit: Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 1:28pm by BP »
	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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TDW Full Member Offline Posts: 118 Location: Montana and Missouri Joined: Mar 21^st, 2010	Re: Low wall receiver stamp question Reply #17 - Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 4:54pm	Print Post
	Wow !! Thanks for all the info, gentlemen, I'm not sure why I don't have a copy of the Madis book, but I know where to borrow one. I have more reading to do . I have Campbell's books and Grant's Single Shot books, but I swear I learn as much or more lurking here !! Redsetter, I went to the Colt Collectors Assn. show in Reno some years back. RIA was there with many, many "jaw dropping" firearms (including Gustav Young's famous "tears of Gettysburg" M1861 Colt, unbelievable !! and two Walker Colts with the same serial number !!). I don't know if their appraisals are high on not, but they were busy selling the whole weekend! Thanks for the compliment on the pics, my old Nikon D200 and I have a lot of miles together. So... It would appear there is some pretty good reason to think this could be a pre-1908, original finish rifle, with a replaced trigger bar. I will definitely try to get to Cody with it in the next few weeks, if I can arrange to have some one there to look at it in person. I will make some calls and make the trip, and tell you gentlemen what I find out when I get back. I simply can't thank you all enough, for taking time to share your knowledge and comments with me !! Think I'll move it to the front of the gun safe !! Tom W.
	« Last Edit: Aug 22^nd, 2013 at 7:28pm by TDW »
	"The farther North you go, the more things you will run into that will eat your horse." S.P. Garbe, Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness, 1980
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TDW Full Member Offline Posts: 118 Location: Montana and Missouri Joined: Mar 21^st, 2010	Re: Low wall receiver stamp question (update:12/2013) Reply #18 - Dec 13^th, 2013 at 10:41am	Print Post
	Gentlemen (Bob,Jesse,Tom, et al ), I thought I was going to be able to travel to Cody much sooner than is possible. I have done the next best thing...I had a good and very knowledgeable friend take the little rifle to Cody for me !! The great people at Wyoming Armory (who have a vast, cumulative experience with hundreds of original model 1885's) spent some time examining my rifle and both agree that it is an original finish rifle with a swapped out trigger bar. They said the blue, wood finish, and workmanship are exactly what you would expect to see on a pre-1905, blued, low wall. The trigger bar serial number (according to the museum records) indicates it was taken from a .25 RF rifle, with standard trigger, that was delivered in late 1904. At some point the trigger bar was converted from a standard trigger to the single set trigger that now resides in the gun. They said the trigger bar swapping was very common early on, and as it is usually the only serial number on the rifle the result is, two rifles loose their identity and history. I bought this rifle solely on the merits of it's bore condition and good mechanics (and it was cheap!). It has certainly been a treat to learn about the original finish and the stamps. My thanks to all who have contributed to this thread and to the great people at Wyoming Armory in Cody. Who knows ?...someday I may even get to shoot it !!!! It will definitely live in the front of the safe from now on ! Tom W.
	« Last Edit: Dec 13^th, 2013 at 6:31pm by TDW »
	"The farther North you go, the more things you will run into that will eat your horse." S.P. Garbe, Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness, 1980
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