There is also a small paperback book on the Maynards by George Layman.  It's not exhaustive and has some incomplete and/or some incorrect information in it, but it makes a pretty good place to start.

Froggie

Roger's 1873 Maynard in 40-70 with a 32" barrel ; Six photos in the collection of one VERY FINE example of Mass Arms Co. contribution to the American shooting sports.  Thanks Roger for taking the time to add your contribution to the Forum.  I've enjoyed working with you to get these posted.

Webb

  And left side of breech piece,  This is one fine Marynard in Excellent Condition; please notice the original factory installed rear sight.  Do you have the original aperture eye disc ?

  Front sight

One beautiful rifle,thanks for shearing.

ron

  Hi Roger --
                I was thinking you might have simply unscrewed the rear sight eye disc just to protect it while you were doing the barrel removal.  But not so, apparently the aperture on the sliding elevation piece was what the factory offered on your rifle.

Shall I post that image as well ?

C.M.M.

Here is the image of the rear tang mounted grad. peep sight in close up detail showing the aperture without an eye disc;

After my last post I realized that I had forgotten to ask if someone would have an idea of what model it might be.  Happily, xtimberman chimed and and identified the rifle for me.  Thank you for that.  The tang sight does not have graduations--just faint scribe marks.  The sight is windage adjustable by loosening the screw in the elongated hole and sliding the metal plate left or right.  

The rifle was sold to me as a 40-60 and when I measured the chamber with my dial caliper, that seemed right at approximately 2.320".  But then I realized I wasn't considering the rim thickness of about .130".  So the case length came out as approximately 2.450" which would make it a 40-70.  I have one washer I could use on my 30-40 cases which have been stretched to 40-70 SS.  I trimmed one of the fired cases to 2.440" and loaded it with 74 grains of Cartridge under a Maynard 249 gr conical bullet from a replica mould which has one cavity for the conical bullet and another for the heavier cylindrical 1882 bullet.  The replica conical bullet is exactly the same weight and diameter as bullets from an original mould that came with the rifle.  Unfortunately the cavities of the original mould won't make a bullet that I'd be comfortable shooting.  I'll have to shoot a couple, just to do it though.  After firing, the case showed no indication of being too long.  I noticed too that there is no listing for a 40-60 1873 in my copy of Cartridges of the World.  But, an article in my 1951 Gun Digest describes and illustrates the 1873 40-60 as 2 9/32" in length.  I also have an original Berdan primed case that is 2 9/32".

I will have to remeasure the twist rate of the barrel.  I did it, but either did not make a note of the twist or have misplaced the note.  I do remember that it was extraordinarily slow. 

I appreciate the assistance with the rifle and am looking forward to shooting it once the new washers for the 30-40 cases arrive or I get a way to prime the 20 RMC cases.

Littleman,

I just measured the chamber of my 1873 .40-70:
2.325" chamber and requires a nominal case length of 2.450". The twist is 1 turn in 25" and is stamped "25" just behind the barrel hook for the crosspin.

It seems to me that hunters would have preferred the .40-70 for the flat-shooting of the lighter conical bullet and target shooters would have been more interested in the .40-60 for the mid-range capability of the heavier bullet. My .40-70 has annoying recoil while hunkered down at the bench - not so when shooting from a normal hunting position. I don't believe I would have been a happy mid-range target shooter with a .40-60/70 #10 Maynard.

So far, no one has mentioned an interesting detail about your fine example. It has a straight upper tang without a raised comb - just like so many percussion models. Nearly all higher-grade M-1873s I've examined have been stocked with a raised comb...so does that mean yours is a very, very early M-1873 example - or a special order?

John (xtm)

The SN of my M-1873 example with raised comb is very close to #26,000. I've never been able to understand Mass. Arms numbering scheme...but I believe Mr. Bly has it figured out.

(I've taken a few photos that I want to post for comparison, but the "new and improved" Photobucket is balking!!    I'll post them later after the de-buggers get finished straightening it out.)

 

Just for comparison...a Model 1873 stocked with the comb elevated above the upper tang.
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Roger,
As an example...here is a photo of the underside of my .40-70 barrel showing SN and the twist rate, "25".

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also...a photo of what a tyro will do when trying to remove that cross pin with an undersize screwdriver!

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(Came to me like that...and it's cosmetic, I know...but I really need to get that fixed.     )

Original 2-piece Maynard .40-60 cartridge on Left (note the soldered joint), RMC .40-70 case on Right next to Ideal #403169 that I've been shooting in it.

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Head of the original Berdan-primed factory Maynard case. Grooves cut to aid in picking out the primer with an awl.

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I've posted this before, but maybe Littleman hasn't seen it yet. Fella on left has one of the heavy caliber Maynard hunting rifles ready-to-go. 1873-type cartridges in his belt. (.40 or .44 cal.?)

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   XTM  Just a thought on the removal of the breech piece cross pin for the barrel.

If one were to have a newly made cross pin, and my guess would be that John Bly has made these up in the past. The way I would go about removing the existing pin would be to file two flats of the round pin at a distance half way in  the breech piece opening that would take an open end wrench with a long handle.  By doing so, I would need to be careful that the two flats don't turn round.  I'm thinking a treatment of B.P. Blaster for a day or two might also be indicated.

C.M.M.

Littleman, et al,

”The rear barrel sight may be a later addition.  I removed it, intending to replace it with a 3/8" dovetail blank.  The blank was considerably oversize.  Flayderman does say that a rear barrel sight is consistent with a Model 10.”

I have looked closely at the picture of the rear barrel sight you posted. I’ve also closely examined a nearly identical adjustable rear site on a civilian model 1865 conversion I own, and I have gone to Layman’s revised edition and several other Maynard catalog reprints. I am quite sure that yours is an original Maynard sight. Consider these points: The small dovetail appears to be the same as mine. Several of my other Maynards have various versions of fixed and flip-up rear sights all with the same size small dovetail — this does not rule out your suggestion that this sight was a later addition or replacement. But if so I’m sure it came from Maynard. I have not yet closely read the catalog lists of available appendages, but will not be surprised to find this sight listed and priced.

Look at the catalog illustration of this sight and observe the horizontal lifting serrations on the sides of the site which clearly are seen in your picture, on mine and in the catalog. All three elevation wedges have five notches. Your sight and the catalog have identical bevels along the edge and looking from above the point, dovetail and staff are also observably identical in shape. You might also examine yours closely to see if the staff like mine appears to be riveted to the dovetail by two filed flush rivets — as is the flat back portion of the sight notch. Take a look, I’m curious a to hear what you find.

Bob

Quote:


Looks like a Gove modification to me too.

Roger, that particular mould normally casts 1:30 alloy bullets ~.410" I can sandwich thin aluminum foil between the halves and get it up to ~414" (which is getting close to the groove diameter) without too many fins. Bore dimensions vary considerably on Maynards - I wish heirs would've kept the matched tools together. 

I need a proper mould...but so many other $$ things are ahead of it on the list...   

  Just stumbled unto some Carlos Gove info, but not the exact rifle that is shown above with the under finger loop lever, but nonetheless a very interesting piece indeed for a Rem. R.B.

See Reference;

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C.M.M.

  Thank you very much X.T.M. for your help, just what I was hoping and looking for.

  Apparently Mr. Gove was a highly skilled and creative person and it shows in his work.

  C.M.M.

After some more examination of the rear barrel sight on Littleman's Maynard, I'm certain that it is an elevation adjustable Marlin-Ballard sight....which would've been an option from the factory. Mass. Arms obviously had some arrangement with Marlin-Ballard to use some of their sights, because I have seen many Ballard sights mounted on Maynard rifles - particularly adj. vernier tang sights on high-grade Maynard target models. The ingenious rack-and-pinion Maynard was difficult to make fine adjustments...but the Ballard sight was not.

Also...it is not uncommon to see Ballard windgage front sights on high-end Maynards. They accommodated the 3/8" dovetail of the Ballard sight by use of a slotted shim that perfectly fitted the 30/64" Maynard slot. (I'll post a photo later.)

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The stylized "arrowhead" on the forward end of Littleman's sight is a telltale Marlin-Ballard characteristic. The "arrowhead" is similar to Winchester barrel sights of the same era, but is sculptured differently. I compared his photo with examples I had on-hand and with a photo (p.89) in Gerald Kelver's book, Reloading Tools, Sights, and Telescopes for Single Shot Rifles. It would have been easy enough for the Mass Arms shop to mill down the 3/8" dovetail to fit their nominal 9/32" rear barrel slot...certainly easier than designing and manufacturing a similar sight.

  If one were to look closely that the sight's male dovetail in photo IMGP0340 I believe there is evidence that Mass Arms Co. did in fact mill off the Ballard 3/8" down to 9/32" in order to fit the Maynard 9/32" female slot.  Look closely, is not the angle discernible and the top metal is wider at the front (muzzel) end of the sight.


However, from a cost standpoint I would suggest that it would have been more cost effective for M.A.Co. to simply order a 3/8" dovetail cutter from their tool supply house in order to accept the stock Ballard rear barrel sight.

C.M.M.

Quote:


In need of help explaining Mr. C. Gove's side lever conversion device.

C.M.M.

P.S.  I now see what this is about.  The side lever is not at all connected to the breech block, but rather is simply held to the action with a threader screw which is just a "pivot point" for the lever.  the lever has a protraction to the left which comes to bear against the breech block "thumb piece" in order to apply additional pressure against the breech block on an "as needed" basis.  If added pressure is not needed to seat a tight case the lever remains down in the horizontal position until again needed.

C.M.M.

Quote:


Right you are Ron !  That would be an easy R.R.B. addition to replicate.  I suspect it could also be modified from what we are looking at so that the lever would also breech seat bullets when the breech block is opened and rearward.

I've seen bullet seater tools similar to this lever that hook onto a receiver stud to operate & then are removed each time to shoot.

C.M.M.

Quote:


I'm not trying to argue  ...but then the shooter couldn't replace any of the standard 9/32" Mass. Arms rear sights if they wished. Obviously, Mass. Arms. had some good reason for preferring their own particular choice of sizes for front and rear sight slots? (Sight slots on perc. Maynards are another story, BTW) Other manufacturers did, too - judging by all the variations by brand.

FWIW...I have never seen an early Remington front sight show up on an original un-messed-with Maynard rifle. Surprising - since they shared that same wide 30/64" slot...another reason for me to believe that Mass. Arms had some sort of arrangement with Marlin-Ballard for sights...at least for a time.

FYI...this is how the Mass. Arms factory fitted Marlin-Ballard sights with a 3/8" dovetail to the 30/64" cut on Maynard barrels.

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If you look closely, you can see the larger shim carefully milled for the purpose.

Here is a short segment of a strip of 3/8" to 30/64" shim stock I made up (back when I had access to a mill) to fit Ballard sights onto some Maynard rifles:

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