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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber (Read 32415 times)
creedmoormatch
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #30 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 6:45am
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To me, the center rifle in the photo looks like a Carlos Gove under-lever conversion of a Remington rolling block sporting rifle.


I'm not real familiar with the conversion of the Remington R.B. of which you speak.  Did that particular work include adding under barrel thimbles in order to receive and carry a wiping rod, either wood or brass?

Also, where were these conversions done, i.e., out in one of the western states perhaps ?

C.M.M.
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #31 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 6:58am
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  Just stumbled unto some Carlos Gove info, but not the exact rifle that is shown above with the under finger loop lever, but nonetheless a very interesting piece indeed for a Rem. R.B.

See Reference;

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C.M.M.
  
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xtimberman
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #32 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 7:44am
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Carlos Gove:

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creedmoormatch
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #33 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 8:06am
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  Thank you very much X.T.M. for your help, just what I was hoping and looking for.

  Apparently Mr. Gove was a highly skilled and creative person and it shows in his work.

  C.M.M.
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #34 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 8:31am
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  Just stumbled unto some Carlos Gove info, but not the exact rifle that is shown above with the under finger loop lever, but nonetheless a very interesting piece indeed for a Rem. R.B.

See Reference;

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C.M.M.



I believe I'm missing something RE: the operation of the above C.Gove altered Rem. R.B. rifle.

If one were to look at photos 2 and 3 in the series, the breech block in those two photos is in the same "battery" position in both photos.  Yet the Gove "operating" lever has changed from photo 2, to photo 3.  Isn't the Gove side lever the device which open and closes the breech block ?

Maybe you can help explain my misunderstanding/s   Thanks,

C.M.M.

  
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xtimberman
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #35 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 9:22am
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After some more examination of the rear barrel sight on Littleman's Maynard, I'm certain that it is an elevation adjustable Marlin-Ballard sight....which would've been an option from the factory. Mass. Arms obviously had some arrangement with Marlin-Ballard to use some of their sights, because I have seen many Ballard sights mounted on Maynard rifles - particularly adj. vernier tang sights on high-grade Maynard target models. The ingenious rack-and-pinion Maynard was difficult to make fine adjustments...but the Ballard sight was not.

Also...it is not uncommon to see Ballard windgage front sights on high-end Maynards. They accommodated the 3/8" dovetail of the Ballard sight by use of a slotted shim that perfectly fitted the 30/64" Maynard slot. (I'll post a photo later.)

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The stylized "arrowhead" on the forward end of Littleman's sight is a telltale Marlin-Ballard characteristic. The "arrowhead" is similar to Winchester barrel sights of the same era, but is sculptured differently. I compared his photo with examples I had on-hand and with a photo (p.89) in Gerald Kelver's book, Reloading Tools, Sights, and Telescopes for Single Shot Rifles. It would have been easy enough for the Mass Arms shop to mill down the 3/8" dovetail to fit their nominal 9/32" rear barrel slot...certainly easier than designing and manufacturing a similar sight.
« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2013 at 9:29am by xtimberman »  
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Chuckster
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #36 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 9:47am
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Don't know if the side lever operates the breech block. RB has no camming to seat a tight cartridge. Sometimes have to tap the breech block to seat them. That device would solve the problem without the tapping. Good addition for a RB on the mountain with variable cartridges or fouling.
Chuck
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #37 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 10:05am
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  If one were to look closely that the sight's male dovetail in photo IMGP0340 I believe there is evidence that Mass Arms Co. did in fact mill off the Ballard 3/8" down to 9/32" in order to fit the Maynard 9/32" female slot.  Look closely, is not the angle discernible and the top metal is wider at the front (muzzel) end of the sight.


However, from a cost standpoint I would suggest that it would have been more cost effective for M.A.Co. to simply order a 3/8" dovetail cutter from their tool supply house in order to accept the stock Ballard rear barrel sight.

C.M.M.
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #38 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 10:15am
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Don't know if the side lever operates the breech block.
Chuck



The two reference photos are evidence that the lever does NOT operate the breech block, so the question is "What does the right hand side lever accomplish ?  It appears to be mechanically connect the the breech block pivot pin with a screw, whereas the two photos show the side lever in two different positions which are 90 degree apart while the breech block remains in the closed or "battery" position.

Nor does the side lever place the hammer in the full cock position !

Interested in knowing what Mr. Gove had in mind with this conversion device which is shown ?


C.M.M.
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #39 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 10:19am
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See Reference;

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C.M.M.


In need of help explaining Mr. C. Gove's side lever conversion device.

C.M.M.

P.S.  I now see what this is about.  The side lever is not at all connected to the breech block, but rather is simply held to the action with a threader screw which is just a "pivot point" for the lever.  the lever has a protraction to the left which comes to bear against the breech block "thumb piece" in order to apply additional pressure against the breech block on an "as needed" basis.  If added pressure is not needed to seat a tight case the lever remains down in the horizontal position until again needed.

C.M.M.
« Last Edit: Aug 22nd, 2013 at 10:28am by »  
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ron
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #40 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 10:23am
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I would say that the lever was used to help close the breech block when a case would not enter with out extra help.

ron
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #41 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 10:34am
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I would say that the lever was used to help close the breech block when a case would not enter with out extra help.ron


Right you are Ron !  That would be an easy R.R.B. addition to replicate.  I suspect it could also be modified from what we are looking at so that the lever would also breech seat bullets when the breech block is opened and rearward.

I've seen bullet seater tools similar to this lever that hook onto a receiver stud to operate & then are removed each time to shoot.

C.M.M.
  
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ron
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #42 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 11:05am
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cmm

I have a tool like that and at times it comes in very handy when a loaded case will not let my Sharps breech close up.

ron
  
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xtimberman
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #43 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 11:21am
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...However, from a cost standpoint I would suggest that it would have been more cost effective for M.A.Co. to simply order a 3/8" dovetail cutter from their tool supply house in order to accept the stock Ballard rear barrel sight.

C.M.M.


I'm not trying to argue  Smiley ...but then the shooter couldn't replace any of the standard 9/32" Mass. Arms rear sights if they wished. Obviously, Mass. Arms. had some good reason for preferring their own particular choice of sizes for front and rear sight slots? (Sight slots on perc. Maynards are another story, BTW) Other manufacturers did, too - judging by all the variations by brand.

FWIW...I have never seen an early Remington front sight show up on an original un-messed-with Maynard rifle. Surprising - since they shared that same wide 30/64" slot...another reason for me to believe that Mass. Arms had some sort of arrangement with Marlin-Ballard for sights...at least for a time.
  
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xtimberman
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Re: 1873 Maynard in 40-70 Caliber
Reply #44 - Aug 23rd, 2013 at 1:50pm
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Does any outfit make a plain low-profile repro. globe front sight like the nice one on Littleman's #10 - one that will fit that 30/64" slot?
  
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