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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed (Read 20058 times)
texassako
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25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Aug 9th, 2013 at 7:35pm
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It was suggested I ask this question over here at the ASSRA forum.  Other than the difference in brass and die expense, is there a difference in chambering a single shot in either of these.  I am considering relining a ratty .32 rimfire #2 RB with a 1:10 25 caliber liner from JT's so I can use heavier weight cast bullets.
  
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SSShooter
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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #1 - Aug 9th, 2013 at 8:48pm
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Likely zero difference in accuracy. Biggest difference is in brass availability. That is why I'm building my Low Wall in 25-20WCF. There is an excellent article in a recent Single-Shot Journal covering a 250 shooter (forgotten who) that has been shooting the 25-20WCF these past few years.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #2 - Aug 9th, 2013 at 9:10pm
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Jerry Hartwig has shot a 250 with his WCF, they are several in his group as well as mine who are having great success, 248' & 9's at 200yds. 10" twist and a 120 grain Mos bullet. Jerry shoots with our group on a monthly basis and at times so do some of the others in his group " The Central Sierra Schuetzen Club" if you would like to follow their match results.
  

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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #3 - Aug 10th, 2013 at 6:02am
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The 25/20 Winchester brass is easier to find although once you have it availability is no longer important.

Might want to look and see what the Rolling blocks were chambered for from the factory & keep the liner caliber authentic. Most people would rather own original calibers all else equal.

Far as the machine work to do one vs the other, I don't know.

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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #4 - Aug 10th, 2013 at 3:01pm
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If the OP wants to go with the 25-20SS, he could have cases made by Rock Mountain Cartridge, which was mentioned in another thread, in the event that he can found no other source.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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texassako
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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #5 - Aug 10th, 2013 at 5:03pm
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Since the .25-20 WCF can be accurate enough to 250s, then I don't really need to pay extra for the Single Shot supplies.  To the poster about original calibers, I have never seen a good list of what was chambered.  I did not feel comfortable trying to fit a .5" .32 liner in the .7" barrel, or reboring to .38-40 or .44-40 considering the old steel.  Maybe someone else knows of an original .25 caliber chambering in these, but I was working on the idea of having lots of .25 calibers molds and I kind of accumulate .25 caliber rifles except for these 2.
  
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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #6 - Aug 10th, 2013 at 7:49pm
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I don't know much about rolling blocks. Quick search of my library says the # 2 was chambered for "a great variety of Pistol Caliber cartridges. 

# 2 was in production to 1910 it's probably safe to assume the 25 WCF which came out with the M 1892 Winchester was a factory chambering.

Might be a fine point but have seen more than one single shot sit unsold on dealers tables when chambered in something other than correct for the rifle. & they all get sold sometime

Anybody know exact please correct me.

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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #7 - Aug 10th, 2013 at 8:56pm
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1895 was first year for 25cfw..
  
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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #8 - Aug 10th, 2013 at 9:22pm
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I have a model 92 in 25-20wcf made in 1894, (according to Madis).



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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #9 - Aug 10th, 2013 at 9:46pm
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I just pulled down Marcot's book on the sporting and long range rollers. It's ALWAYS a joy to look through it. Page 269 shows a #2 offhand target "in 25-20 single shot centerfire",  but it does not say of this is a completely original or not. 
However on page 273 he has a list of "calibers" (I'm assuming cartridges since that is the way he lists them) advertised fr the #2 sporting rifle.  the nominally 25's listed are as follows:  25-10 Stevens rimfire,  25-20 Singleshot Centerfire, 25-21 Stevens Centerfire, and lastly .25-.25 Stevens Centerfire. An ad on page 274 lists 25-20 Stevens centerfire and page 275 pictures another lovely #2 in offhand rig in .25-25 single shot. (That specific rifle would be my personal choice to recreate in a 25 cal #2) Page 277 is a plain-jane #2 in 25-10 Stevens rimfire. 
There seem to be no 25-20 WCF rifles shown or listed in the Marcote book.  That is interesting, since they do show ads for 1902 that list other WCF cartridges for the #2  including the 32-20 and 38-40, so it can't be just a refusal to chamber for the competition's proprietary cartridges.

As far as shooting goes with modern powder and careful matching of bullet to bore and twist I'm sure the 25-20 WCF will shot as well as any other, plus some factory ammo may still be available and it'd be a working companion for a repeater and maybe a revolver.   However the straighter cases might have a little advantage for our breech seating style target shooting, and the future marketability has also been mentioned.
« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2013 at 9:54pm by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #10 - Aug 10th, 2013 at 10:32pm
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DWS,

Seem to recall that the 25-20 Repeater as introduced was loaded to higher pressures than the 25-20 SS, 32-20 or the other traditional black powder cartridges listed for the #2.
Remington may not have wanted to kick a sleeping dog.

  

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texassako
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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #11 - Aug 10th, 2013 at 10:55pm
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Pressure is a good point for not being chambered originally, and the .25-20 WCF is 28k rather than the .32-20s 16k.  I forgot to mention I have a CF breech block for this conversion and the original rimfire one will go in storage carefully labeled and unmolested.
« Last Edit: Aug 10th, 2013 at 11:07pm by »  
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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #12 - Aug 11th, 2013 at 12:30am
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Food for thought...

WRA shows the 25-20 Winchester cartridge listed for the Model 1892, and in the ammunition charts, beginning with the No. 55 August 1895 catalog.

The Model 1873 rifle, chambered in 32-20 was listed for sale in this same catalog, and was still shown as available for purchase through at least 1918. 
From a strictly mechanical standpoint, it would have been extremely easy for WRA to put a 25 calibre barrel on the Model 1873, but they chose not to do so.
Did WRA consider the Model 1873 action to be too weak to handle the 25-20 Winchester cartridge?

How does an original Rem #2 compare in strength to an original WRA Model 1873?

  

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Jerry_H
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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #13 - Aug 11th, 2013 at 1:05am
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I'll go "shoulder to shoulder" using my 25-20 WCF against any other traditional .25 caliber rifle and never feel undergunned. It all depends on the guy pulling the trigger.

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Re: 25-20 SS vs. 25-20 WCF, pros and cons needed
Reply #14 - Aug 11th, 2013 at 8:42am
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What you intend to do with the rifle has a lot to do with what cartridge you choose. Do you intend to shoot fixed of breech seat? Is it for pure target work or plinking? How hot are you planning on running? Are you planning on loading at the bench or loading a hundred or so at home and bringing them to the range? 
  If you plan on using a lot of brass by ether pre-loading or shooting fixed look no further that Starline 32-20 WCF brass. 
  If pure accuracy is your goal or you are planning on breech-seating and loading at the bench I believe that there are more truly accurate 25-20 SS chambered rifles than 25-20 WCF rifles. I know that Jerry has been doing exceptional work with his WCF. The 25-20 SS brass from Jamison is excellent but a little pricier. 
  If I had it to do all over again I would chamber in 25-21 Stevens. The older I get the more I like straight cases. Roberts recommended the 25-21 as being the most inherently accurate case for the .25.

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