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FatJackDurham
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No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Aug 8th, 2013 at 4:15pm
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I was reading through the rules in an ASSRA competition, and it says no gas checks are allowed? THe seems to eliminate the 7mm RB. I cant find any bullets or moulds that dont use gas checks.

Can someone clarify or weigh in?
  
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frnkeore
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #1 - Aug 8th, 2013 at 4:31pm
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There are many 7mm GC molds out there, all it takes is to ream or bore the GC off the mold. There is also a occasional non GC mold listed on Ebay but, you can't be impatient. Look for the 287202, 287221 or the 287373. They won't be cheap @ $75 - 100 per mold. GC molds that are more common ($40 - 65) and can be modified to PB are 287405 and 287346. If you do that, make sure that the base band is about .002 over groove with .0015 added for alloy shrinkage.

Frank
  

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ledball
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #2 - Aug 8th, 2013 at 4:44pm
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There was a time twenty of so years ago that gas checks were not even allowed on your shooting bench even if you were not using them. ASSRA discourages gas checks and I agree.   ledball
  
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JLouis
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #3 - Aug 8th, 2013 at 8:30pm
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CPA stocks a 7MM plainbase mould for a 284 Groove, not sure if that is helpful not knowing all the specifics on the barrel.
  

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Walter  Matera
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #4 - Aug 8th, 2013 at 11:59pm
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Just out of curiosity, why no gas checks?  Are they too recent a development?
  
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Longdistance1
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #5 - Aug 9th, 2013 at 1:18am
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I've used gas check bullets without a check on them and they shoot well depending on bullet and if the rifle will shoot accurately anyway. I shot the Forsyth 1000 yd match in 2003 with a 640 gr spitzer 1 grease groove 2 driving bands bullet the gas check base had lube. My first 5 shots could be covered with your hand @ 1000 yds, then I started leading up, wrong lube and 114 in the shade and no shade.
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #6 - Aug 9th, 2013 at 8:22am
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in ASSRA I believe that the no gas checks rule goes way way back.   Its pretty much an "article of faith" that and nothing but non-bolt action single shot rifles are basic core beliefs/principles.

remember that thr ASSRA was founded in the hay-days of the varmint hunting era, largely as a reaction to the varmintization of single shots and the pursuit of high-speed flat trajectory ammunition.  the Founders wanted to preserve and protect the older traditional arms and their uses in a more or less traditional manner.
Yes we have shifted a little as our membership aged and bench shooting became more comfortable than offhand shooting.  rules have been liberalized a little to allow for modern single shot actions and rounds.  But those two core principles are solidly etched in stone.   Otherwise we'd just be a single shot subsection of the Cast Bullet Association.

In general it seems that most shooters find that the gascheck bullets do just fine if shot minus gas checks at the velocities we normally use (approx 1200-1500 fps) when limited to 100/ 200 yards.  It appears that they function like cast lead boat tails
  

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40_Rod
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #7 - Aug 9th, 2013 at 9:30am
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I have been reading the old original Single Shot Rifle News on disc. (If you are really curious about why things are the way they are get one from Byron Goff.) In the first match in 1948 there were 2 classes plain based and gas checked. Only one person showed up and withdrew because there was no one to shoot against. Later when set rules were established the rules stated that only plain based lead bullets would be allowed. 
These are the first shooting rules published for the first match:
SHOOTING RULES OF THE AMERICAN SINGLE SHOT RIFLE ASSOCIATION
l. Any single shot cartridge rifle as such - no magazine type rifles with alteration for single shots.
2. No barrel length restriction - weight limitation 20 pounds.
3. Rest shooting to be done from bench or prone position, use of sling permitted.
4. Single case loading and firing permitted.
5. Telescopes to be permitted in any sight matches.
6. No restriction on type of powders.
7. Matches will specify type of bullet which can be fired either lead only or gas check and metal jacketed. Type of bullet designated MUST BE USED ONLY IN THAT MATCH.
8. The use of card, felt, or other non metallic wads shall be permitted except wads containing asbestos which will be classed as metallic gas check.
9. Case, breech or muzzle loading seating of bullet, optional.
10. No caliber restriction.
ll. Scores to be computed from center of hole. Scores and targets to be witnessed. Shooters will furnish the fired targets together with load, bullet, type of rifle, etc.
12. Targets to be "Official" German ring targets only - only scores fired on targets signed by Secretary to be considered.
13. Targets must be fired at ranges specified and can be fired at any home range. All firing must be witnessed.
14. Only dues paying members will be eligible to compete for prizes in all matches. Dues are $l.00.

Continued:
  
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40_Rod
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #8 - Aug 9th, 2013 at 9:33am
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This ran after the first match in 1948:
A separate classification was set up for the jacketted bullet group, but we only had one entry and he finally decided to withdraw since he had no competition.

New rules from June 1950:
RULES AND REGULATIONS
Targets must be our 25- ring targets.
1. Any single shot rifle may be used excluding bolt actions. No bolt actions!
2. Any sights - can be fired according to classification if you wish (up to .38; over .38; telescope; iron sights).
3. Palm rest, Scheutzen butt plates, etc. all permitted.
4. Bench rest shooting must be done with the butt stock supported by the body. No wedges or sand bags permitted to touch the butt stock.
5. Bullets must be lead - no gas checks and no jacketted bullets. Paper patches permitted.
6. Ammunition can be fixed or fired Scheutzen style.
7. Any loading permitted, black; black with smokeless priming charge; or smokeless.
8. Two or more competitors wishing to fire in competition cannot use the same gun and loadings.

I hope that this clears up any confusion about the history of plain-based verses anything you want.

40 Rod

  
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Walter  Matera
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #9 - Aug 9th, 2013 at 11:09am
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Ah, that clears things up nicely.  Thanx.
  
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FatJackDurham
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #10 - Aug 9th, 2013 at 2:52pm
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Longdistance1 wrote on Aug 9th, 2013 at 1:18am:
I've used gas check bullets without a check on them and they shoot well depending on bullet and if the rifle will shoot accurately anyway. I shot the Forsyth 1000 yd match in 2003 with a 640 gr spitzer 1 grease groove 2 driving bands bullet the gas check base had lube. My first 5 shots could be covered with your hand @ 1000 yds, then I started leading up, wrong lube and 114 in the shade and no shade.


How did you lube the base? Pan method with a cookie cuttrer?
  
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Longdistance1
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #11 - Aug 9th, 2013 at 4:04pm
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At that match I used Lee liquid Alox dipped them into it and set on wax paper to dry overnight then dipped them again,and dried again, I've been using a RCBS luber with a longer I die or ram to push the bullet completely out of the sizer, the lube will stay on the gas check part of bullet.  I use Lyman Molly lube. Black nasty stuff but works well to stop leading.
  
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #12 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 3:46pm
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When  I first started shooting cast in my custom Borchardt Hornet, I had Fred Leeth make up two identical nose-pour moulds.  One a gas-check, and the other plain based.  For pure accuracy..NOT velocity, there is only a .3 gr. difference between the two..the g.c. version requiring the heaver charge. 
   But over the years, I have discovered something..those g.c. bullets would shoot into 1/2" to 3/4" groups at 100yds. one session, and a few weeks later, the same load would open up to 1" or more.  However, the plain-based loads seem to remain consistant.  Why?...I sure don't know.  I do know the g.c. is not perfectly flat..and more important, of unequal height side to side.  Perhaps the fact a perfect base from the nose-pour mould every time is the answer?  Whatever the reason, I find myself using the p.b. version exclusively.
  
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Re: No Gas checks in ASSRA?
Reply #13 - Aug 22nd, 2013 at 7:36pm
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I agree that the base of the bullet is one of the most important things with a lead projectile.  Good cast bases are very necessary. (this includes the sprue area on base pour bullets).
I shoot only bp and I use a .060 veggie wad to protect the base.   
I have also had my guns recrowned so there is an absolute 'sharp' edge to the crown that is square to the bore (last thing the base sees).
Getting these three things right is one of the things paramount to accuracy with 'pb' bullets.

Cary
  
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