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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Black powder Choices (Read 24530 times)
shovel80
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #30 - Jul 13th, 2013 at 10:57pm
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It's amazing how clean that KiK powder burned in your test!.....John Boy!

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zrifleman
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #31 - Jul 14th, 2013 at 1:54am
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Have any of you tried Goex 4 FA? If you are not familiar with it---it is a fireworks powder or cannon powder. The grain size is a little finer and more even  than Goex 1 FG, also uncoated. Many of my shooting friends have been loading BPCR with it for some time with excellent results. Powder sells it as #1 Skirmish. I pay about $10 lb from another distributor. That's right---only $10 lb!!!
  
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SSShooter
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #32 - Jul 14th, 2013 at 7:27am
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podufa wrote on Jul 13th, 2013 at 8:35pm:
Did I read that right? 32-40 with 440 grain bullet?
Oops........ see how you could think that. Meant that he knocked over 32 of 40 animals. That would be a very long bullet if 32-40. Wink
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Mick B
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #33 - Jul 14th, 2013 at 11:11pm
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Here downunder we have somewhat limited choices when it comes to which powder to use. To the best of my knowledge Goex is no longer marketed in Australia.
The choices are Wano, Swiss, Pyrodex and Trailboss.
Swiss is approximately A$100.00 per kg ( 2.2 LB ), Wano is available here in three different quality grades. The cheapest are FA grades, suitable for casual offhand shooting perhaps, they seem to contain quite a bit of dust. 5FA is roughly the same as 3f as far as granulation goes, it's about 5% faster when run through the Chrony. The next offering from Wano are their F grade powders, 4F, 3F,2F and 1F. Their premium powders are the P grades which include P, PP, PPP.  I shoot PP and 1.5 Swiss in my 45/70, 45/90 and 38/56, so far after four years of testing various loads in each rifle I have been unable to detect any accuracy difference between either. There is however a difference in the fouling left by the Wano, it's dirtier. As my rifles are wiped after each shot this is a non issue for me. Anyone shooting where there may be time constraints this may present a problem. Finally Wano P grade powder is A$50.00 per KG, a considerable saving over Swiss. Normal F grade Wano is about A$45 per kg and the FA grade retails for about A$38 a kilo.
  
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #34 - Jul 15th, 2013 at 7:56am
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Mick B - lack of Goex in Oz sounds like a business opportunity.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Mick B
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #35 - Jul 15th, 2013 at 9:06pm
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I looked into importing powder years ago, lots of paperwork and expensive permits, finding a suitable magazine to store it, road transport costs, etc etc.  Another problem is suitable port where you can unload explosives, Sydney is out. Perhaps that's why Goex gave it away here, that plus the fact that Goex was about 50 bucks a pound and Wano was 50 a kilo.
  
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macca
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #36 - Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:14am
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I have to agree with Mick. I use Wano 1P in my 45/90 and 3P in the 40/65. I sock the 3P before using it. This reduces the fouling to that of Swiss. I get better accuracy with Wano than Swiss at half the price and easier availability
  
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32 ballard xl
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #37 - Jul 20th, 2013 at 3:29pm
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What does that mean, he "socks the Wano"  before using?   Huh
  

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digitall423
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #38 - Jul 21st, 2013 at 7:42am
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You put the powder into a sock (I presume one with some porosity). Shake it about thus removing the fines and dust. I've never done it, only read about it. Maybe someone can elaborate.
Bill
  
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boats
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #39 - Jul 22nd, 2013 at 6:58am
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Only thing I can say about socking is it's extremely dangerous.  Dust from the fines is more likely to ignite than solid powder. Black is safe in small charges, danger increases many times when you go to large volume.

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John Boy
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #40 - Jul 22nd, 2013 at 4:30pm
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Quote:
Only thing I can say about socking is it's extremely dangerous.  Dust from the fines is more likely to ignite than solid powder. Black is safe in small charges, danger increases many times when you go to large volume.

Socking is no more dangerous for a 1 lb container than at manufacture a 2200 lbs are put in a drying rotary drum to reduce the moisture percentage down to about 6%.  In the polishing process, the rotating drum again rubs the angular edges to a 'rounded' condition - thus producing some powder fines and reducing the moisture down to 2 -3%.  Then before packaging most manufacturers coat the powder grains with graphite to allow for uniform drop in the powder chargers.  So we have in a can of powder - grain fines of powder and excess graphite.

Having screened every brand of powder for most of the grades - some brands have more fines that will pass through certified mesh laboratory screens - past the normal mesh mix by grade.  Say for FFg, fines will pass onto the 40-50 and 60 mesh screens.  These fines are composed of powder and INERT graphite.

So, the shooters back in the 1800's SOCKED powder brands with abnormal fines of powder and graphite.  

I sock different powder brands too, usually Goex and Diamondback with a knee high cotton athletic sock.  Pour the can in the sock, hold both ends of the sock OUTDOORS and rock it back and forth for a couple of minutes.  The fines will stick in the openings of the cotton sock thus yielding a more consistent powder grade and removing the INERT graphite fines that impedes ignition

I sock some brands for BPCR reloads only.  For CAS, what's in the can goes in the shells as is ... including Skirmish 1FA that I use for shot shells  

Socking is no more dangerous than the drying and polishing processes at the plants.  The only reason I sock outdoors is because I did it indoors once, blew my nose in a handkerchief for 2 days with black 'fines' in my snot as though I worked in a coal mine.
  
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John Boy
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #41 - Jul 22nd, 2013 at 4:34pm
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Out of characters on the previous post, so try this to determine fines are dangerous ...

Pile 10-20 grs on a lead ingot.  Take a steel hammer and beat the pile down to nothing but dust.  No explosion.  I have done it a couple of times for smokeless powder shooters that say BP is dangerous
  
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Re: Black powder Choices
Reply #42 - Jul 22nd, 2013 at 5:24pm
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It's the fine dust that's raised that's dangerous, not the powder grains themselves.  Dust can cause dramatic explosions in material that would not normally be considered dangerous.  We all know gasoline fumes are explosive.  Dry commodities can and do blow just as easy. Sawdust in mills, Grain storage facilities , even Peanut shelling plants have exploded from dust suspended in the air.  Few years ago indoor shooting range in my area exploded when the range fans were turned off and suspended powder smoke went off. Ignition source never identified. Might have been static electricity someone may have been smoking or the fans when restarted may have ignited the dust.  One person seriously burned from the flash.   

Small amount of dust raised when dumping powder from a measure in a cartridge case very little risk.  More powder you dump higher the risk.  Use home methods, not spark shielded to sift out dust risk is substantially higher.  Now I don’t expect everybody to agree. If they have had professional fire fighting training and seen the effect of vapors and fine dust ignited my bet is they will agree.   

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