Still making progress of discovering what will shoot in my 40-70 Hepburn.  I started with .408 grease groove 410g bullets.  I had fire formed .405 Winchester brass and belled the case mouth to accept the  .408.  Problems began when I seated the bullets and tried to place them in the chamber.   No fit.  So I ran them through the sizer and pulled them back to the .422 neck size that my chamber would accept.  Turn out that case walls of .010 only leave .402 for a bullet diameter.  But, since I had 25 .408's and had been waiting 3 months for the first shots, it was off to the range.  Groups were about 4" at 100 yards with 54g of Goex FF.  Not a great group but felt great to be shooting. And it was back to the drawing boards.

Got on the internet.  Read books.  Talked with Boats.  Finally began to realize that original Hepburns barrels are different from modern mfg.  I have no throat - staight from chamber to rifling.  Chamber is smaller on original Sharps Straight as compared with Shiloh Sharps Straight.  Very difficult to find commercial grease groove bullets smaller than .408 and nothing at .402.  Etc. Etc. Etc.  

So I decided to try paper patch bullets.  More internet.  More books.  More conversations with Boats and others.  Net result is a batch of 50 .395 swaged pure lead 400g bullets.  .002 paper builds the total diameter to .403 and I can get that into my cases.  The wrapped bullets push into the mouth of the barrel, imprinting the pattern of the lands on the paper without tearing anything.

Next I need to experiment with grease cookies.  Never made any.  Heck, I've never done any of this but finding the challenge of it all a thrilling experience.  Every step is a new discovery and a new accompolishment.  

I've found a few grease cookie receipts, on the net, and will cook up something.  If any of you have suggestions, all will be welcome.  I am hoping to get to the range and see if I can keep a 2" - 2 1/2" group.  If not, then we simply figure out why.

Chris,  Sounds like your cookie reciept is similar to others that keep it simjple but find that it works. Thanks.  and, yes - bore diameter.  I took one of the patched bullets and pushed it through the barrel from the chamber end.  Tight fit.  Had to push with the cleaning rod.  Paper was compressed against the lead but did not tare.  Should expand nicely into the grooves when loaded and shot.  Hope to get to the range tomorrow.

Chris,

Can you give me a few details on what you learned about wad material?  There are so many details that effect shooting consistancy.  So, your experience will be helpful.

Ken

If you are looking for excellent target accuracy, try no
lube cookie.  I use 1/8" cork wad in place of the lube.
Since I wipe every shot, I do not need any lube in the case to soften the fouling.

Your bullet "fit" sounds right.  What alloy are you casting?  I used to cast 35:1 in my 40 caliber rifles, but I have standardized on 20:1 alloy.  They seem to shoot a little better in the 20:1.

54 grains of Goex FFg sounds a bit anemic for a 40-70 strait.  I shoot 69.5 grains of Swiss 1.5Fg and 74 grains of Goex express FFg.  You can experiment with more MV once you get a basic load working.   

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

SchwarzStock wrote on Jul 8^th, 2013 at 12:04pm:



Cool!  GOOD TECHNIQUE!

Most of my paper patched loads use very little compression, but I know of some that use nearly 0.4".  I think that no one can tell you what will work best.  I'd start with a powder charge that gives you zero compression and then add powder 2gr at a time and see what works best.   

Chris.

I have come to the conclusion that shooting modern firearms using commercially produced ammunition is way less complicagted and easier than shooting BPCR in cartridges that are no longer produced.  That being said, I have also come to the conclusion that I will probably never again be fully satisfied shooting modern firearms using comercially produced ammunition.  The process of learning to prepare loads for my .40-70 has been long, involved, detailed, challenging and satisfying.  Last night I completed my first 25 PP bullets and will be shooting them this weekend.  In one sense, I don't really care how well they shoot.  It is just that I will be shooting something that I assembled.  Accuracy and consistency will eventually develop but it will be something that will be a result of a complex process that I will control.  And, for me, that will be verry satisfying.  Yes, I realize that most of you have are sitting there thinking "Well yeah!  That's why we do it."  But give a Newbe credit for seeing the light.  And I will give you guys credit for showing the way.  But I also want to say that the internet and sites like ASSRA Forum have made it so much easier for a newcomer to get started.  The access to information and the support that has been provided has been extraordinary and appreciated.  I really don't know how some of you deciphered the mysteries pre-internet.

So, tomorrow I will take 25 massive 3.5" paper patched .40-70 bullets and slide them into the chamber of a rifle that was deisgned specifically for this cartirdge.  And then I will smile.

Strider - don't know if you have read this but Brent Danielson's 'treatise' is probably the best  ... 
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And unfortunately, the search capability on Shiloh Forum is hosed for old threads, but Kenny Wasserburger detailed and has perfected PP reloads to the nth degree.  For the past 3 years he still holds the smallest group record at Raton for the Pedersoli 200yd Challenge