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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn (Read 31704 times)
jimmy
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Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Jul 2nd, 2013 at 3:50am
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I've done a google search and found little on reloading the 38-40 RH. Is the cartridge that rare? What bullet weight would you recomend? Factory hepburn has I believe a 16 inch twist. I've got a lyman 375 248 on the way. Just punching paper here. Any advice from someone experienced with this cartridge?
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #1 - Jul 3rd, 2013 at 12:13am
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I have an original Remington seater and other loading stuff marked 38 2 1/4 with a few old bullets cast long ago and dirty, no mold.  The grooved bullet mikes .378 and weighs 258 gr., a hollow based paper patch bullet is .370 and 254 gr.  The dipper is marked 50 on the handle, 5 cases, some headstamped 38-50 Rem.  The set is like the one in Chamberlain/Quigley's Reloading Tools of the Past page 42.  Looks like a Win/Marlin/Ballard mold would work if it casts .378 or so, would slug the barrel of course.  Hope this helps.    Jim Hays
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #2 - Jul 3rd, 2013 at 12:32am
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Oops, you said 38-40 Rem.  Donnelly's book recomended 15.0 gr 2400 with 250 gr lead bullet with modified 303 Brit cases but 30-40 cases might work also.  Would slug it also and begin light.  Ideal 375248 probably would work, good bet.
Jim
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #3 - Jul 3rd, 2013 at 11:40am
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The 38 2 1\4 is the 38-50 I believe. My bore slugs .379 - .380 or so. Don't think the chamber neck will be big enough to seat a bullet. So I'm either breech seating or shooting soft bullets and hoping for a bump up. Hate to modify an original chamber. But I am tempted to rechamber this or increase the neck diameter. 

Other idea is to paper patch like the original. Have wanted to try this. Will  have to find or make a different mold.
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #4 - Jul 3rd, 2013 at 2:25pm
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I had that issue (chamber neck) with my 40/63. I just turned the necks to fit the chamber and bullet. But, BSing is more accurate.

Frank
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #5 - Jul 5th, 2013 at 1:22pm
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Jimmy,
I am currently working up an original RH in 40 2 1/2 and finding some of the same issues that you have.  Check my posting on Trying Paper Patch.  Last night I rolled my first paper patches and everything went well.  Bore fit is sweet.  I am expecting that I will be staying with PP.  It is probably what the rifle was built for and hopefully will shoot best.  If you get frustrated with your current barrel, my suggestion would be to get a replacement barrel and keep the original one.  A new barrel will have harder steel, be stronger, and should allow you to be safer using smokeless.  And you can still have a totally original RH.
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #6 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 9:44pm
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Any other 38-40 Remington Hepburn shooters out there? Am thinking of having one of my Hepburns barreled in 38-40. Am thinking I'll go with the modern 0.367"/0.375" bore/rifling dimensions in a 26" long 13.5" twist barrel. Think that would work pretty well with a the 325gr bullet I have available. Thinking that 16-18gr of 5744 would be a good place to start. Am thinking the 38-40 R-H would make a better 200yd rifle then the 40-60WCF.
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #7 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 10:49pm
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If you go with a custom reamer have the neck made big enough for groove diameter bullets. The original chamber was not.

I still have not shot this hepburn. Maybe I'll try this weekend.
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #8 - Oct 15th, 2014 at 11:42am
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Spoke with a gunsmith who specializes in Hepburn rifles (has the correct roll-mark to do both the receiver and the barrel - a previous owner over-polished my receiver and the stamp is about 50% removed.) and he can chamber in either 38-40 Rem or 38-50 Rem. Am thinking I'll go ahead with the longer 38-50 as it is easy enough to "load down" (lighter load) for 200yd shooting with the 38-50 while it is almost impossible to "load up" with a 38-40 if one needs more 'umph' behind the bullet. 

Let us know your results and what loads are working for you. Hepburns rule!! Wink
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #9 - Oct 15th, 2014 at 5:11pm
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I have a 1:18 twist Atkinson and Marquette barrel on my .38-50 Remington Hepburn.
I blow out .30-40 Krag cases to make .38-50 cases. 
I load 50 grains Swiss FFFg with a .060 vegetable wad with newspaper over the flash hole and Magnum primers to shoot a 310 grain Boomer Money bullet. 
COAL is 3.020"

With a 16:1 twist you can go to a bit longer bullet.

She is deadly on chickens at 220 yards.
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #10 - Oct 15th, 2014 at 7:01pm
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The 3 gunsmiths I've spoken to agree with you about the rarity of the 38-40 Remington. Turns out the one who said he could chamber it would be short chambering with his 38-50 reamer.
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #11 - Oct 15th, 2014 at 8:24pm
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I just finish putting a new barrel on my original Hepburn. Chambered it for .38-40 Remington just to be difficult. I'll be shooting black powder and fixed ammo for now. I took it out and fire-formed some brass and it seems to want to shoot. I'll post my result as I go along.

Steven Durren
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #12 - Oct 15th, 2014 at 10:15pm
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Hi Steve - how did you chamber it? Do you have the 38-40 reamer or did you short chamber with a 38-50?
What length & twist barrel did you go with? Looking  forward to your load info & shooting report.
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #13 - Oct 16th, 2014 at 5:45am
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I have a .38-40 Remington reamer. The neck measures .402". I still had to ream the necks of the Winchester brass I used to fit .375" bullets. 

I'll be casting more bullets this weekend and I should have a report later next week.

Steven Durren
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #14 - Oct 21st, 2014 at 7:10pm
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Dang, drat, rats, etc., etc. Wink I was all ready to go with Baldwin's 35-40 Maynard based on the 38-55 case, but I really like the 38-40 Rem idea better since it is a Hepburn. Especially now that I know you have the reamer. 

What twist and barrel length did you go with?
« Last Edit: Oct 21st, 2014 at 7:15pm by SSShooter »  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #15 - Nov 2nd, 2014 at 10:41am
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Steve,
Anxiously awaiting an update on the .38-40 and curious as to the twist rate.
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #16 - Nov 5th, 2014 at 12:16am
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My neck measures .395

I'm still tempted to chamber neck ream this up to .405 to allow fixed ammo.
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #17 - Nov 5th, 2014 at 8:11pm
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Against the advice of DanT (who recommended a 12" twist), I've gone with a 14" twist. My 14.5" twist 38cal GM barrel works great with everything up through 360gr, so figure the 14" will be a bit of insurance.
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #18 - Nov 5th, 2014 at 8:52pm
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Well, I've had a couple of range sessions with the .38-40 RH. The first trip looked promising but I was having some trouble chambering a few rounds. I left one round to measure at home. What I found was that I didn't have my compression plug set to the right depth and I was compressing the powder with the bullet and the bore riding section would upset and not chamber. Adjusted the dies correctly and the problem went away.

Today's session went much better. All loads used Federal 150 primers, .060" fiber wad, and a bullet cast in an old Ohaus mold that comes out at 265 grains with 30-1 alloy, lubed with Glenn Fewless' lube. I set the bullet to just touch the rifling. This bullet has a short nose so powder capacity is reduced. All shooting was at 100 yds. today.

First I tried 33 grains of Olde Eynsford 1&1/2 F. This gave 1177 fps and a 5 shot group of 1.727" Next I tried 36 grains of the OE and the velocity went up to 1221 fps but the group opened up to 2.824". It appears the Olde Eynsford doesn't like to be compressed, at least in this gun.

Next I switched over to Swiss 1&1/2F. Starting at 31 grains the velocity was 1171 fps but the group was a surprising 4.5". Increasing the charge to 33 grains brought the velocity to 1207 fps and put 4 shots into .875" and I jerked one out to 1.7". I know many people say Swiss powder doesn't like to be compressed, but I've always had better luck with lots of compression. 

I'm not trying to make a silhouette rifle out of this, just a 200yd offhand gun, so heavy bullets and maximum velocity aren't needed.

I'll post updates as I go along.

Steven Durren 
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #19 - Nov 5th, 2014 at 11:04pm
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Thanks for the report Steve.  If you don't mind me asking, what twist is your rifle?
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #20 - Nov 6th, 2014 at 3:39pm
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Yes........ thanks for the update.
What is your twist & barrel length?
Would you like to try some BACo 325gr 'Money' bullets? I'm thinking that is about the heaviest bullet I'll be shooting and you should be able to load it longer so can get in a bit more powder. PM me with an address and I'll send along.
I also compress Swiss. ~0.10" in all my loads.
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #21 - Nov 8th, 2014 at 2:30pm
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The barrel is a Douglas, .375" groove diameter, 28" long, 1-12 twist.

Glenn, thanks for the offer but as I said, I'm not looking for heavy bullets. In fact, I'm considering getting another mold to cast a little bit lighter bullet, maybe 240gr. 

I guess my opinion is, why go with a small cartridge and then try and use as heavy a bullet as possible with as much powder as can fit. I prefer to work within the original parameters of the cartridge.

Steve Durren
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #22 - Nov 20th, 2014 at 2:50am
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I do not have the information so I will ask. What is the proper length for .38-40 Rem-Hep cases as compared to cases for the .38-50 Rem-Hep.?
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #23 - Nov 20th, 2014 at 5:38am
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The case length is 1.75" for the .38-40 and 2.250" for the .38-50.

Steven Durren
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #24 - Feb 13th, 2020 at 9:12pm
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Steve - any results with your 38-40?
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #25 - Feb 15th, 2020 at 6:11pm
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I remember this thread. Only got the Hepburn out once. Need to shoot it again. Bought bullets and paper from buffalo arms. Don't remember how it shot so it wasn't very good.  Cheesy
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #26 - Feb 15th, 2020 at 7:48pm
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Have a 12" twist 38cal barrel and was thinking the 38-40 might be a pleasant round thru it. Can always punch it out to 38-55 or 38-50 or 38-70 or 38-72 or 38-90 or 38-100  if that doesn't work. Think those last few are getting a little extreme.
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #27 - Feb 16th, 2020 at 7:53pm
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Here is Steve's reply:
I did build a .38-40 Rem. I’ve been using it as fun rifle for offhand with black powder. My load consists of a Accurate Molds 38-250E with a 1/32 fiber wad. 36gr. of Swiss 1&1/2 gives just over 1200 FPS. It’s a delight to shoot at chickens but it is definitely not a silhouette gun. A solid hit on a ram will leave it standing about half the time. I’m not sure how it would work with heavier bullets but there isn’t much room in there for powder.

Could be an excellent Schuetzen round. I wonder....... 38-40 Rem or 38-40WCF? Earl (may he RIP) did very well with his WCF and won as often as not. But, 38-40 Rem intrigues me. Especially with a new 5R barrel to try it in. If can't get the 38-50 Rem to work can always set it back a bit for the 38-40WCF.
« Last Edit: Feb 17th, 2020 at 5:42pm by SSShooter »  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #28 - Mar 29th, 2020 at 5:49pm
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Bartlein barrel & CPA action off to Steve to be fitted and chambered in 38-40RH. 100 .303 cases inbound. Plenty of time to expand to 38cal, cut back to 1.78" and anneal. Should be great fun.
« Last Edit: Apr 1st, 2020 at 7:51pm by SSShooter »  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #29 - Mar 29th, 2020 at 8:27pm
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I've been shooting 10 grains unique with the old Lyman 375248. My rifle is a custom rolling Block with a 1 and 16 Douglas. I'm just shooting it off headed hundred yards I can't complain about accuracy.
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #30 - Apr 1st, 2020 at 11:48am
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Thanks for the load info. I'll likely be shooting 330gr Money bullets to start, though I'm thinking something in the 275-300gr range may be needed. 

When I talk about the 'old dead guys' that I would like to emulate, I'm talking about those before the turn of the 19th century. I'll likely shoot BP, but may try a duplex load with 4-5gr of Unique under 35gr of BP or something similar. Think the ODGs started using duplex loads prior to 1900. Of particular interest to me is lengthening the recoil with the slower burning BP. I find shooting off the bench to be about the worst position for me, recoil-wise.
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #31 - Apr 2nd, 2020 at 3:20pm
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Ordered a 2-cavity mold from Accurate. Their 38-265EP. Should be a good bullet in the 38-40 and might even work out to be a good one in the 38-55 & 38-50 out to 200yd.
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #32 - Apr 17th, 2020 at 5:31pm
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.303 Brit -to- 38-40 on left and 30-40 Gov't -to- 38-50 on the right. 
One stroke resize thru a die that Chris Christensen made up for me (thank you, again, Chris). Makes life easy.
38-40 case will get chucked and parted-off from 2.175" to 1.80 and then trimmed to final length in the Forster.
38-50 cases come out almost perfect and only the occasional case requires trimming after firing. Then all cases will get their annual trip thru the annealing flame.
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #33 - Nov 27th, 2021 at 3:42pm
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I'm late to this discussion (but seldom late to the table).  I have a Remington Hepburn in .38.40, and I managed to snag an Ideal #6 reloading tool to match.  The tool came with a bullet that was cast in the mold, and it weighs 243.5 grains.
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #34 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 1:49pm
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Am hoping to get enough primers to resume load testing this next spring. I have a 245gr & 265gr GG bullet and a 300gr PP bullet. Initial testing with 44gr of 2F were positive, but brass needs some additional work. Will be reaming the case mouths.
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #35 - Dec 4th, 2021 at 5:26pm
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I really should get mine out again.  Cool
  
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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #36 - Feb 19th, 2026 at 4:55pm
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I am having the same problem of sorts. Picked up an all original Hepburn in 40-2 1/2 (40-70 ST) and the bore is toast. Wanted to keep it original but can't if I want any reasonable accuracy out of it. I am looking at a rebore to 44 cal or liner and keep the same chamber. There were some chambered in 44 cal but that would mean rebore cost more expensive dies and brass and a bullet mold. And then the cal marking on the barrel wouldn't be right. Decisions decisions...



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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #37 - Feb 20th, 2026 at 10:39am
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Never heard of a .40-70 ST? Do you mean .40-70 SS (Sharps Straight)??
  

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Re: Reloading 38-40 Remington Hepburn
Reply #38 - Feb 20th, 2026 at 4:22pm
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Yes... My mistake. It is a Sharps straight.
  
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