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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) At the range today (Read 13306 times)
BigOtto
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At the range today
Jun 20th, 2013 at 2:55pm
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Loaded the .45-70, 62 gr. goex 2F, 500 gr bullet from my lee mold, home made lube and cardboard wads over powder. Fired through my custom trapdoor, chronographed low 1290fps, high 1480fps.  4" groups at 100 yards.  Not really happy with first attempt.  I did not weigh and separate bullets so some refinement is in order.
  
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SSShooter
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Re: At the range today
Reply #1 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 3:38pm
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1480 - 1290 = 190fps spread, which is big.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Walter  Matera
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Re: At the range today
Reply #2 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 3:44pm
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It really is, especially at such low velocities.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: At the range today
Reply #3 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 3:46pm
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I've always used FG GOEX. There are less fines in the FG grade and that should bring your ES down. The lube can bring it down a little, too. Did you blow tube it? 

If you don't need straight black, duplexing will help a lot with GOEX, also.

Frank
  

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SchwarzStock
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Re: At the range today
Reply #4 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 4:40pm
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IS this your first effort at loading BP in a cartridge, from your description it sounds like it. I struggled for a number of years trying to make a Shiloh rifle in 45-70 to shoot with little luck Finally met a guy that taught me the basics and my groups went from 12 inches down to 2 1/2. Bought SPG's reloading primer and have been able to refine my loads to where some of my guns will shoot sub-MOA.

FWIW I only use Goex as a last resort, Swiss is so much better.

SS
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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gunlaker
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Re: At the range today
Reply #5 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 4:56pm
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I would try placing your chronograph as far away as the wire will allow.  The muzzle blast and crud coming out of the rifle will often cause false readings.  I'm betting that your extreme spread is actually way tighter than that. Especially because the max velocity you quoted is very high for such a light load.  I would have expected under 1200fps.

I'll bet that even your first attepts at loading will give you an extreme spread of less than 25fps.  

Edit:  I should add that I shoot a fair bit over the chronograph these days.  My .45-110 rounds use 105gr of powder and they propel a 540gr bullet to about 1360fps out of a 32" barrel.  I can get 1200fps out of my .45-70's with a 530gr bullet but need over 70gr of powder to do it.

Chris.
  
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WillH
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Re: At the range today
Reply #6 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 5:18pm
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SchwarzStock wrote on Jun 20th, 2013 at 4:40pm:
IS this your first effort at loading BP in a cartridge, from your description it sounds like it. I struggled for a number of years trying to make a Shiloh rifle in 45-70 to shoot with little luck Finally met a guy that taught me the basics and my groups went from 12 inches down to 2 1/2. Bought SPG's reloading primer and have been able to refine my loads to where some of my guns will shoot sub-MOA.

FWIW I only use Goex as a last resort, Swiss is so much better.

SS


Would you share those 45-70 reloading basics with the rest of us? Much appreciated!

Will
  
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Kermit1945
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Re: At the range today
Reply #7 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 6:35pm
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...and where does one find SPG's primer? Some of us are know-very-littles.
  

"Speed's fine, but accuracy's final." Bill Jordan
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West
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WillH
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Re: At the range today
Reply #8 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 6:57pm
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Kermit1945 wrote on Jun 20th, 2013 at 6:35pm:
...and where does one find SPG's primer? Some of us are know-very-littles.


I see that "Track Of The Wolf" has the primer in stock at $21.95; the best deal I see so far.

Will
  
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John Boy
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Re: At the range today
Reply #9 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 8:06pm
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Quote:
...62 gr. goex 2F, 500 gr bullet from my lee mold, home made lube and cardboard wads over powder. Fired through my custom trapdoor, chronographed low 1290fps, high 1480fps.
Something isn't right!  Here's a Goex chronograph load at 10 ft with a Lyman 457132 using Goex FFFg ...
L457132      531      358      1:20      Starline      Br2      Goex 3F Sifted      73gr      Wax Paper      3.014      1194 fps
Eleven grains less and FFg instead of FFFg -   Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: Jun 20th, 2013 at 8:12pm by »  
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John Boy
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Re: At the range today
Reply #10 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 8:09pm
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Quote:
Would you share those 45-70 reloading basics with the rest of us?

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CanoeRoller
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Re: At the range today
Reply #11 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 10:29pm
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Here are some basic BP loading tips:

First get a BP primer or two and learn what you are doing.   

There are a number of differences in loading a BP round from smokeless.

I for one will never duplex my Sharps or Remingtons.  They were designed for BP, and they work well with BP.  I can shoot long strings of shots and clean up is easy, normally one patch with cleaner, a dry patch or two, and one with oil.  Done.

Do not think you are loading a specific number of grains of Black powder.  You are loading a specific volume.  It is the amount of compression you are after, not a specific weight. 

The amount of powder you will use is determined by a number of factors, none of which have to do with the name of the cartridge you are loading.

You can achieve the proper powder compression in a number of ways, ie. a compression die, drop tube, shaking the brass etc.   

You will need to determine just how much powder you need based upon how deeply you wish to seat your bullet. The thickness of your brass and the type of wad you use.   

Your bullet's shape and the chamber of your rifle and even the type of action will tell you how deeply you will seat the bullet into the brass.



The base of your bullet needs to be against the wad and the wad needs to be against the powder.  The simplest way to do this is to use a dowel to press your wad against the powder, and then seat the bullet.  You generally do not want to compress the powder with your bullet, and this can distort the round.

Use a Black Powder Lube, not one designed for smokeless powders, and your bullet needs to carry enough lube to soften the black powder fowling the length of your barrel. Therefor your bullet needs to have wide, deep grease grooves.  It is going to carry a lot of lube down the barrel.
Your bullet needs to match your barrel, it is best if you can slug the barrel to make sure that you have a proper fit of bullet to barrel.
  
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SSShooter
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Re: At the range today
Reply #12 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 10:38pm
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Here's a book solely for loading and shooting the trapdoor. If you scroll on down the page you will see the 'primer' that has been mentioned.
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BigOtto - A 'custom' TD sounds like a great rifle. Can you tell us more about it and post a picture or two? Think my next rifle is going to be a TD.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Kermit1945
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Re: At the range today
Reply #13 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 10:55pm
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Is this the deal? Who's this Venturino dude? Wink

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"Speed's fine, but accuracy's final." Bill Jordan
"Anything worth doing is worth doing slowly." Mae West
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CanoeRoller
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Re: At the range today
Reply #14 - Jun 20th, 2013 at 11:01pm
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This Venturino dude is a gun writer who specializes in firearms of the old west.  He is one of the 'founding fathers' of BPCRS, taking part in the first such match in New Mexico, and one of the fellows who set up the second BPCRS match in Livingston, Montana.  He has been an active BPCRS shooter ever since those first matches.  And yes, he can say that he, "Wrote the book."
  
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