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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Effect of neck tension on accuracy (Read 11001 times)
Old-Win
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Re: Effect of neck tension on accuracy
Reply #15 - May 29th, 2013 at 2:19pm
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rr2241tx,
When you say that you are compressing the powder .520" below the case mouth, are you filling the case to the top with the new Eynsford?  if not, how much are you actually compressing your load?
I'm curious to see how that new powder responds as I talked to a friend at Lodi that's shooting it now and he said velocities are quite good but it had a different smell than our usual black.  Thanks.  Bob
  
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Dr Tom
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Re: Effect of neck tension on accuracy
Reply #16 - May 30th, 2013 at 12:13am
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This is interesting. In a loose chamber, the slight flare would help center the bullet. I've never crimped rounds intended for SS, but I have observed crimps in revolver rounds that were not symmetrical. That would tend to decenter the bullet. The old timers on this forum can probably write a book on the subject of case necks!

Tom
  
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rr2241tx
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Re: Effect of neck tension on accuracy
Reply #17 - May 30th, 2013 at 12:28pm
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I measured compression depth from the case mouth to the top of the wad.  This was done to achieve the seating depth needed to assure a drop-in fit in my rifle and have the case mouth against a driving band rather than hanging over a grease groove.  Actual compression from the top of the powder varied some.  I trickled the powder through a 24" drop tube and observed inconsistent settling so there was 1/16 - 3/32 between the powder and the case mouth.  So, actual compression was about 0.426 - 0.458.  There are a lot of fines in the powder, so I rolled the bottle for several minutes before putting the powder into the measure and weighed each throw.  Over the course of about 40 throws to set the measure and fill 20 cases I saw occasional heavy throws with a tendency near the lower third of the reservoir for heavier throws.  It appears that Goex sweetened the run with fines to adjust the burn rate.  That may impact loading strategies if the fines tend to settle into layers.  I am hoping that doesn't get to be too big a problem because I laid in enough to shoot for a good while on data developed for this lot number.

Based on POI of this Eynsford 2F load compared to my usual load of Goex 3F and my previous load of Goex 2F, I'd say the OE 2F is giving me somewhat higher muzzle velocity than 3F and quite a bit higher velocity than the 2F.  Have to catch another calm day to confirm this but I think I will reduce my 200 m setting about 2-3 moa from the 3F setting.

The OE appears to burn cleaner than the old red can Goex by a considerable margin.  Wiping patches that were coming out caked with fouling came out black but not caked, all the fouling was in the cloth.  A second wet patch was light gray streaks and the third wet patch was white.  The smell is different too, more like charcoal ash much less sulphur than red can Goex.
  
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rr2241tx
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Re: Effect of neck tension on accuracy
Reply #18 - May 30th, 2013 at 12:48pm
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A little belling might help center the bullet but that would assume that one's flaring tool was absolutely concentric to the bore line which is probably never the case.  I have tried a number of options with my single shot cartridges.  Some worked better than others but to date seating the bullet with some neck tension then straightening the flare against a driving band seems to be the most consistent in a number of different rifles when shooting fixed cartridges with rather soft bullets.  When using hard cast commercial bullets I taper crimp into the crimp groove if one is provided or roll crimp into the first grease groove as these are hunting rounds that need their grease covered and may ride around in my pocket quite a while before being used.

Crimped revolver rounds likely have nothing to do with precision shooting.  The cartridges used by my CAS-shooting friends make English teeth look good.  That probably explains how they can miss gas cylinder chimes at 30 feet with their 1873 Winchester clones.  I have never seen a problem with my own 44 Mag and 45 Colt crimped loads being crooked, but I don't load them on a $150 progressive press either.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Effect of neck tension on accuracy
Reply #19 - May 31st, 2013 at 10:01am
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Thanks for the report on Old Eyns.  Keep us posted as you progress with this powder.  It will be interesting to see if you have vertical problems when you shoot it at longer distances.  Generally, a lot of fines in the powder are not a good thing but this may be different.  You mentioned that you thought the weight changed as it went through the reservoir.  I wonder what the sd's are with this powder?
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Effect of neck tension on accuracy
Reply #20 - May 31st, 2013 at 12:40pm
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Hmmm.   

At work today I glanced down at one of the machines in the metrology lab.  It would measure compression and/or tension.  Wouldn't be too hard to actually MEASURE the seating force of a bullet - which would include effects of surface finishes as well as neck tension (and might presumably be analogous to at least a portion of neck tension as it affects the release of the bullet when firing).
  

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