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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Maynard Question (Read 30238 times)
creedmoormatch
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Maynard Question
May 10th, 2013 at 5:25pm
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  Basically there are four models of Dr. Maynard's long firearm.  The model 1 and Model 2 percussion, the 1873 revision and the 1882 model.

The product catalog put out by the Mass. Arms Co dated 1890 offers 16 different versions of the Maynard long gun for sale.  All but one version, the Number 16, Improved Target Rifle, are available to the retail public as either the Model 1873 or the 1882, at the purchaser's selection.

My question is, what conceivable reason/s would Mass Arms Co. have for continuing to product and make available the Model 1873 long after the 1882 was brought to the market place ?

C.M.M.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #1 - May 10th, 2013 at 8:58pm
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Shooters committed to 1873 type ammo?  That pie pan rim sure makes it easier to pull out a fired case.  The 1882 extractor just lifts the rim out of the chamber a very short distance.  Just speculatin'!  Roll Eyes

Froggie
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #2 - May 10th, 2013 at 9:40pm
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The 1885 catalog states that if you wanted a rimfire gun it had to be an 1873 with the Hadley device. I don't know if the 1890 catalog says this or not. Later on the 1882 Model used an offset bore on .22 rimfires, but not on any other rimfire caliber. 

The breech face on the 1873 is cut back about 1/16" farther than the 1882. An 1873 cannot be converted to an 1882 model. Once an 1873, always an 1873. Perhaps they were still trying to get rid of old inventory. The 1870 decade was a very trying time in the US with a long lasting deep depression that saw many gun makers go out of business.

The "1873" stamped on the left side of the Maynard frame is not a Model #. It is the patent date of the cocking lever that takes the hammer to half-cock upon opening the gun. That's why it is on the left side with the other patent dates. The 1882 Model is stamped on the right side and that is a Model #.
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #3 - May 11th, 2013 at 7:24am
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  Thanks to our two Maynard experts @ ASSRA, DeadEye and Froggie.

  From a shooters point of view, if would seem to me that it would have been advantageous for Maynard to have produced one model of the C.F. action, that is, to have established the dimensional distance from the centerline of the "C" hook hinge pin (actually a screw) rearward to the finished face of the standing breech and maintain that established distance for the entire C.F. series of actions.  Having had done that, them they would vary the barrel length to suit the cartridge case style (thick head vs. thin head).

Had that been the approach, and we know that it wasn't, then a Maynard rifle owner would have avail to all the Maynard cartridges with the additional purchase of the appropriate length barrel to accommodate the two different head designs.

Food for thought, but a little too late.   Wink

C.M.M.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #4 - May 11th, 2013 at 11:22am
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Quote:

  Thanks to our two Maynard experts @ ASSRA, DeadEye and Froggie.

  From a shooters point of view, if would seem to me that it would have been advantageous for Maynard to have produced one model of the C.F. action, that is, to have established the dimensional distance from the centerline of the "C" hook hinge pin (actually a screw) rearward to the finished face of the standing breech and maintain that established distance for the entire C.F. series of actions.  Having had done that, them they would vary the barrel length to suit the cartridge case style (thick head vs. thin head).

Had that been the approach, and we know that it wasn't, then a Maynard rifle owner would have avail to all the Maynard cartridges with the additional purchase of the appropriate length barrel to accommodate the two different head designs.

Food for thought, but a little too late.   Wink

C.M.M.


One thing to be aware of is that Maynard may not have made many if any new receivers during the time in question!  Most of the 1873 and 1882 rifles were built on remanufactured receivers from the Civil War... either surplus and buy back guns, or receivers that never got finished before Grant surrendered at Appomattox.  Wink  As friend John has stated, they were using up what they had, because they were just trying to survive economically.  Huh

Froggie
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #5 - May 11th, 2013 at 6:21pm
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  Thanks for that Froggie;

     That does raise another question for our Maynard Experts in Residence.   

Perhaps Mr. Francis Bannerman acquired an inventory at auction of the previously issued Maynard carbine length guns, and sold them back to Mass Arms Co. for the commercial/sporting trade.

There is an extensive collection of original Maynard documents at the Library of Congress which I plan to have brought out of the stacks in the next several weeks or so.  Some of these materials pertain to his dental education and dental practice in D.C., whereas others are firearm related.

I find Edward to be just as fascinating as his firearms inventions.

Regards,
Webb
  
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ron
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #6 - May 12th, 2013 at 11:32am
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I myself enjoy the simplicity of the Maynard action.

ron
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #7 - May 13th, 2013 at 4:43pm
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Back to your original question of why they would continue to make the 1873 after the 1882 model was introduced. Why did Winchester continue to make the 1873 lever action long after the 1892 was introduced?
Or why did Winchester continue to make & sell the 1897 pump shotgun until 1957 when the Model 12 was a much more modern design and it really didn't last much longer? All those marketing folks are long gone and the answers went with them I guess.
  
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coljimmy
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #8 - May 14th, 2013 at 12:22am
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While we are on the Maynard topic, I could surely use an Ideal 3117 mold for my .32-35.

Uhh...  froggie, I'm afraid it was General Lee that surrendered to General Grant at Appomatox if I remember my Classic Comic Book correctly.

coljimmy
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #9 - May 14th, 2013 at 8:05am
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  My contention is, that for all intents and purposes, the Model 1873 Maynard action is the exact same action as the 1882.  Yes, I am aware that the standing breech face on the 1873 is a slightly greater distance back from the centerline of the "C" hook style hinge cross pin in order to accommodate the thicker case rim found on the 1873 style "dish pan" (to borrow Froggies nomenclature) case.

Had Maynard, and their production contractor, Mass. Arms Co., standardized the two actions sequentially, one at a time, and simply varied the barrel lengths to accept the older, and discontinued style, 1873 cases, it all would have made better economic sense.  What I am suggesting is, when  the 1882 actions where introduced for the thinner rim line of cartridges, that would have been the opportune time to cease production of the 1873 actions.  The surplus/salvaged '73 actions, and those in the hands of the public owners, could have been converted to the thinner case rim '82 style with the installation of a simple "add on" spacer plate for a nominal fee.

Thinking linearly,

Creedmoormatch
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xtimberman
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #10 - May 19th, 2013 at 6:58pm
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I've wondered that same thing.

Maybe the factory was attempting to nudge shooters to either buy a whole new 1882 rifle or send their 1873 back to have the breech re-sleeved with a new barrel set back far enough to properly fit the thinner rim? Either way it kept workers at the factory busy.

Every one of the Mass. Arms sleeved "conversions" from 1873 to 1882 that I have examined were done beautifully - with only a faint line present where the new barrel meets the old breech.
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #11 - May 20th, 2013 at 8:21am
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  Thanks for that X-Timberman ;

  I am working on a current project which entails an 1873 Maynard action that is converted by the use of a sleeved barrel that will be chambered in either the 32-40 Ballard or the 32-20-CPA.  The modern SAMMI chamber reamer will be used so that the case (which ever one of the two possibilities is ultimately selected) will be recessed so that upon closing the breech the case head will not be visible from the side view.

Working on figuring out the extractor arrangement.

C.M.M.
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xtimberman
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #12 - May 20th, 2013 at 9:01am
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CMM,

I used to have a .22 Short sleeved conversion barrel (with a short checkered wood forend) that was reamed just like your ongoing project - completely closing the gap. It had that same wonderful Mass. Arms workmanship and would only fit a 1873 action. IIRC, the extractor was just a slightly longer piece of bent spring steel.

Maynard extractors leave much to be desired, IMO, and often require some thumbnail assistance after a few rounds.

I'm currently shooting a #16 1873-'82 sleeved conversion in .32-35, but the thin cartridge rim gap remains.
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #13 - May 20th, 2013 at 9:38am
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CMM, the Maynard extractor can only lift the cartridge about .070" maximum and generally about .060". I know of no way to get more movement of the extractor and I've fitted quite a few. Mass Arms called it a retractor instead of extractor. If you recess the cartridge head you will need finger relief to grab the cartridge head with your fingernails. Leaving the head exposed is not a safety problem with todays modern cartridges and will greatly improve your cartridge extraction situation.

The rimfire barrels were fitted tight to the breech face or Hadley device to control gas expansion in the case of a rim rupture. They all had extra space around the rim to facilitate grabbing the fired cartridge. 

I've got your screw made and you did not show up anytime over the weekend. I'll PM you with the price.
  
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creedmoormatch
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Re: Maynard Question
Reply #14 - May 20th, 2013 at 6:27pm
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  Hello John :

  Sorry I missed you at the Fort, so my check will be in tomorrow's mail,to you.  I greatly appreciate your taking the time last week to make that up for me.  Working a day job doesn't leave much time for these fun projects, does it ?

We're getting quite a response to our mutual interest in Maynards, Froggie included, here at the ASSRA site.  Actually, during the peak of schuetzen activities in America at the beginning of the 20th century and end of the 19th, Ned Roberts reports that Maynard rifles were highly competed and sought after, as you well know.

Later,

C.M.M.
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