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1873 Maynard Long Range (Read 18409 times)

creedmoormatch Ex Member	1873 Maynard Long Range Apr 23^rd, 2013 at 10:03pm	Print Post
	This is an exclusive Maynard rifle worthy of your viewing. I greatly appreciate the pistol grip attachment to the lever and will fashion one to replicate what I assume to be a factory original shown. See; (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) C.M.M.


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ssrifles Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 281 Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2009	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #1 - Apr 23^rd, 2013 at 10:13pm	Print Post
	i used to own this gun.it came with all you see there except the sight case and the man that bought it from me made it,and he said he wouldn't do another way to much time and work.i really hated to sell it but something came up and i had to.it is in a good home and really appreciated.and yes it was not cheap. tony <><


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J.Francis Full Member Offline Posts: 156 Location: Pownal, Vermont Joined: Nov 20^th, 2011	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #2 - Apr 24^th, 2013 at 6:17am	Print Post
	I have an Arthur Hubalek custom Martini in 22L.R. with a similar lever treatment; it's a neat way to get a pistol grip without a lot of metal bending.


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graduated peep Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #3 - Apr 24^th, 2013 at 7:02am	Print Post
	What is the metal attachment behind the tang sight, a thumb rest ???


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John in PA Oldtimer Offline Posts: 580 Location: Hollidaysburg, PA Joined: Nov 3^rd, 2009	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #4 - Apr 24^th, 2013 at 7:52am	Print Post
	Very interesting rifle. Not sure I've seen a Creedmoor model before. The thumbrest certainly is unique. I guess it's there to keep the sight from biting the shooter's hand (or for a more secure/comfortable grip?) Looking closely, I was trying to figure out if it was oriented for a right or left handed shooter? I also wondered if the large diameter barrel necessitated changing the dimensions of the trough in the frame?

	John Wells Hollidaysburg, PA Peabody and Peabody-Martini's Wanted!
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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #5 - Apr 24^th, 2013 at 8:27am	Print Post
	Quote: i used to own this gun.it came with all you see there except the sight case tony <>< Good Morning Tony-- Thanks for identifying the Maynard Creedmoor as one that you owned in the past. Would you care to add a few words describing how the rifle shoot, either at 200 yards or beyond. I'd be interested in knowing that. C.M.M.


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Deadeye Bly Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1067 Location: Stephens City Joined: Feb 25^th, 2011	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #6 - Apr 24^th, 2013 at 10:17am	Print Post
	John in PA, the barrel is 1 1/16" diameter at the breech and does not require any modification of the frame. The octagon barrels are only octagon on the top 5 flats, the bottom is round and is the 1 1/16" diameter. The octagon part is the maximum size to get the corners sharp. Those Creedmoor barrels only had about 1/32" taper to them and were 32" long. The max weight for a Creedmoor gun was 10 lbs and the Maynards met the weight. Records indicate that only one was ever used at Creedmoor and that was in the "walkover" match several years after the famous match in which we beat the Irish team.


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ssrifles Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 281 Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2009	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #7 - Apr 24^th, 2013 at 5:35pm	Print Post
	cmm i never shot it.i was collecting creedmoors and that was one of many i had.i saw a display of several different long ranges and all the goodies that went with them at a small show in pennsylvania 20 + years ago and wanted one like it.i came real close to it.i was in commercial renovations and when the bottom fell out several years ago i was offered more for them than i could turn down.i seem to still get one every now and then. tony <><


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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #8 - Apr 24^th, 2013 at 6:01pm	Print Post
	Quote: cmm i never shot it.i was collecting creedmoors and that was one of many i had.i saw a display of several different long ranges and all the goodies that went with them at a small show in pennsylvania 20 + years ago and wanted one like it.tony <>< Evening Tony: I try, within reason, to make those small Pennsylvania gun shows that the various gun and fishing clubs put on, as you once did. I've concluded that it's really a waste on one's time to look for exclusive firearms at such shows. I would rather send those club's my $7.00 to $10.00 door admission fees in the mail, and save my gas for other trips. Even though you did not shoot this Creedmoor rifle, I know it brought you much enjoyment and pleasure while it belonged to you. C.M.M. .


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ssrifles Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 281 Joined: Mar 23^rd, 2009	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #9 - Apr 24^th, 2013 at 6:36pm	Print Post
	it did,with all the goodies it displayed very nice.it's got where most small shows aren't worth the time.jewelry and bar b que sauce.


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11521 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #10 - Apr 24^th, 2013 at 10:03pm	Print Post
	The Maynard long range is certainly an exotic firearms collectible. I wouldn't shoot it either. Why suffer. Joe.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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harry_eales Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #11 - Apr 25^th, 2013 at 3:25am	Print Post
	Quote: What is the metal attachment behind the tang sight, a thumb rest ??? I believe John in PA has it correct, it is to allow the thumb of the shooters right hand to encompass the stock yet prevent tang sight base 'bite' when the rifle is fired. The nice thing about it is that it appears to be ambidextrous in design. Loosen the holding screw and simply rotate the thumb protector over to the left and tighten it up again. Harry


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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #12 - Apr 25^th, 2013 at 7:25am	Print Post
	I have been waiting to for someone to comment of the rear, tang mounted, sight, but apparently it has been over-looked except for those of us who have more than a passing interest in Maynard firearms, which many people have for years considered to be oddities. The Maynard catalogs referred to the Long Range Creedmoor Rifle as a No. 14, either Model 1873 or Model 1882 and being chambered in .44 caliber. The unique rear sight is elevated with a rack and pinion mechanical arrangement, rather than the more common screw thread found elsewhere. I am not certain that the sight described and shown was actually made by Massachusetts Arms Co. since it may well have been sub-contracted out to a third party manufactured. What is for certain is the fact that Doctor Maynard initiated the rack and pinion elevation for his arms. C.M.M. .


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harry_eales Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #13 - Apr 25^th, 2013 at 2:13pm	Print Post
	Quote: I have been waiting to for someone to comment of the rear, tang mounted, sight, but apparently it has been over-looked except for those of us who have more than a passing interest in Maynard firearms, which many people have for years considered to be oddities. The Maynard catalogs referred to the Long Range Creedmoor Rifle as a No. 14, either Model 1873 or Model 1882 and being chambered in .44 caliber. The unique rear sight is elevated with a rack and pinion mechanical arrangement, rather than the more common screw thread found elsewhere. I am not certain that the sight described and shown was actually made by Massachusetts Arms Co. since it may well have been sub-contracted out to a third party manufactured. What is for certain is the fact that Doctor Maynard initiated the rack and pinion elevation for his arms. C.M.M. CMM, I'm not so sure about the Rack and Pinion elevation for the tang site being Dr. Maynards idea. An identical sight was patented by a certain Mr. Hadley (of Hadley Disc fame). I've lost everything about the patent except for a few of the Patent Drawings. I'll try and attach some of them. Harry EDIT See:- (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Right click on the URL and then open in a new window, it doesn't work otherwise. Patent number: 172465 Filing date: 8 Dec 1875 Issue date: 18 Jan 1876 Harry
	« Last Edit: Apr 25^th, 2013 at 2:49pm by »

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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #14 - Apr 25^th, 2013 at 8:30pm	Print Post
	Quote: What is for certain is the fact that Doctor Maynard initiated the rack and pinion elevation for his arms. C.M.M. Good Evening Harry: Sorry to have put you to the task of digging into your files on my behalf for wanting me to have the most up to-date and accurate information possible when it comes to the topic of very fine Maynand rifle and shot arms. As you, and most other alert people know, the rack and pinion mechanism predates the birth of Christ and was used during the time of the Roman empire in all manner of wars and civilizations. The catapults for throwing boulders were based in part on the mechanical advantages to be realized from the rack and pinion mechanism. Respectfully, if you will simply re-read my above quotation it will become evident to you that I am pointing out to the reader that Doctor Maynard made a conscious decision to use the rack and pinion to raise and lower his sight aperture to the exclusion of other possibilities available for doing so, i.e., the threaded rod being just one of those options. I believe that it is self evident from my statement that I was never under the impression that Doctor Maynard invented the rack and pinion mechanism, nor that he was the first and or only person to apply that particular mechanism for use with firearms sights. He was a bright inventor and had more than able patent counsel on retainer at the time. I have no doubts that if he had been counseled to make patent application for the sight, he would have done so without hesitation. C.M.M..


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graduated peep Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #15 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 9:03am	Print Post
	Is anyone making this rack and pinion style rear sight ??? I think Romano makes the standard sliding model. Looks like a job for ---- WATCHMAKER MAN


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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #16 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 9:04am	Print Post
	Hello Harry: Thank you for posting your addendum to your earlier post which shows the Hadley patent application drawing for the vernier tang sight which is raised and lowered via a rack and pinion gear and a finger knob. Correspondingly, I would like to add to my earlier post with the observation that the Maynard factory literature which describes the benefits and virtues of their "Maynard Improved Target Rifle, Number 16 ", states. . . ."Mid Range Patent Vernier and Wind Gauge Sights." ; (See Single Shot Rifles by James J. Grant, 1947 @ page 290). We are of course discussing the Maynard Model No. 16 Creedmoor long range rifle which originated as a adjunct to the No. 16. Grant goes on to say at page 296, "More rare is the finer No. 16, with crotch walnut pistol grip stock, nickeled Swiss butt plate, and Maynard patent vernier elevating rear sight. I find nothing in Grant's treatise which clarifies the configuration of the "Maynard Patent Vernier elevating rear sight" to which he refers. Further investigation may well show that Doctor Maynard was either the owner or the assignee of the subject patent. Other possibilities are certainly plausible, such as a subcontractor (i.e. Hadley) was manufacturing the sights and selling them to Maynard for installation on Maynard rifles in their factory. I would greatly appreciate hearing from anyone with additional information, receiving corrections either to Mr. Grant's writings or mine, and any theories or speculations properly identified as such. C.M.M.


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harry_eales Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #17 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 10:29am	Print Post
	Hello CMM, It wasn't any trouble to search out the Patent Pictures, as they were in my computers memory anyway. I am rather surprised however to see that Dr. Maynard apparently chose to go with the Rack and Pinion method of sight adjustment as the only advantage I can see in using that sight is that rapid adjustments can be made which are much quicker to do than those sights with screw elevation. There is no fine adjustment with the Rack and Pinion sight which perhaps could be adjusted to 0.01" or one hundredth of an inch. Whereas the screw adjusted vernier sights could be adjusted to 0.001" or one thousandth of an inch. The latter has to be far more accurate instrument. The differences between the Hadley Patent Drawings and the sight affixed to the rifle are noticeable by their absence, in other words, they appear to be identical. Certainly the Rack and Pinion system has been is use since ancient times but I do not know of it's application to rifle sight adjustment before the date of Hadley's Patent. If Dr. Maynard had thought of it before Hadley I can see no reason why he couldn't have applied for a Patent himself. What I can't understand is why he should go to the lengths of building a good Long Range Rifle and then mount on it what was, in most respects, an inferior rear sight. Unless of course the rear sight was fitted at a later date, by someone else, which is entirely possible of course. Not having access to books or catalogues containing information of Maynard's Rifles it's difficult for me to say whether is was an original Maynard factory item. Harry. Edit, CMM, further to your later post, I cannot find any Patent relating to sights by Dr. Maynard. As you know searching the internet isn't always easy for a specific item and a slight change of wording can make a lot of difference. I don't have any of Grants Books on Single Shot Rifles but I would have thought that he would have given a reference to any Patents in a References section. Harry.
	« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2013 at 10:47am by »

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graduated peep Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #18 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 10:56am	Print Post
	Regarding Hadley, keep in mind that Maynard also marketed his patented re-and de-capper.


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harry_eales Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #19 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 11:37am	Print Post
	Quote: Regarding Hadley, keep in mind that Maynard also marketed his patented re-and de-capper. Hello GP, Do you have by any chance the Patent Numbers for the De and Re Capper. Thanks in anticipation. Harry


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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #20 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 11:52am	Print Post
	Quote: There is no fine adjustment with the Rack and Pinion sight which perhaps could be adjusted to 0.01" or one hundredth of an inch. Whereas the screw adjusted vernier sights could be adjusted to 0.001" or one thousandth of an inch. Excellent point you make Harry. One additional observation here. The Creedmoor rifle pictured on the web site has the vernier rear sight mounted on the action upper tang, whereas Grant writes at page 296; quote " The only long-range Creedmoor Maynard I ever ran across was a 32 inch round barreled model in .44 caliber with straight grip, shot gun butt stock of the plainest variety walnut, no forearm or tip stock, and with Maynard mid-range height of vernier rear sight mounted on the heel of the stock." Somewhat similar to the sample we have viewed above, but someone has wisely increased the sight radius of the rifle that Mr. Grant looked at. Regards, C.M.M. .
	« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2013 at 12:00pm by »

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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #21 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 12:09pm	Print Post
	Quote: Regarding Hadley, keep in mind that Maynard also marketed his patented re-and de-capper. Thanks Peep --- Agreed, there was definitely some business relationship between the two men, Maynard and Hadley; which seems to point towards what Harry is saying. That is, Hadley was first to achieve a U.S. Patent on the rack and pinion vernier rear sight and Maynard subsequently, either purchased the finished sights from Hadley, or alternatively, Maynard manufactured the sights upon permission from Hadley and paid Hadley for being able to do so. If anyone has information on this issue, please come forward and help to establish this fact. C.M.M.


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graduated peep Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #22 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 12:18pm	Print Post
	Harry, I will have to look through Grant's books as well as Gerald Kelver's works for the re/de-capper. I'm pretty sure I saw a patent drawing for it....somewhere. On another point, I wonder if anyone has compared physical dimensions with the staffs of both the standard sliding peep sight and the Hadley patented style ? It occurred to me that the Hadley system could have been applied to the standard staff as an upgrade ?? OR would the machined teeth weaken the standard staff requiring a heavier version ? I ask because perhaps the modern replicas could be re worked to emulate the gear driven version. Maybe someone's already done it ???


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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #23 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 12:28pm	Print Post
	Quote: Do you have by any chance the Patent Numbers for the De and Re Capper. Thanks in anticipation. Harry Harry The Hadley Capping/De-Capping tool is shown in Grant's 1st. S.S. Rifle book. However, that volume does not cite a Patent Grant Number. The patent was granted to Hadley 13 January 1885. I do not believe that the tool was proprietary solely to Maynard cartridges, but I may not be correct on that issue. C.M.M.


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harry_eales Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #24 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 2:59pm	Print Post
	Quote: Quote: Do you have by any chance the Patent Numbers for the De and Re Capper. Thanks in anticipation. Harry Harry The Hadley Capping/De-Capping tool is shown in Grant's 1st. S.S. Rifle book. However, that volume does not cite a Patent Grant Number. The patent was granted to Hadley 13 January 1885. I do not believe that the tool was proprietary solely to Maynard cartridges, but I may not be correct on that issue. C.M.M. Hello CMM and GP, I honestly didn't intend to make waves here on this subject, but as a researcher myself I have found that it doesn't always pay to look at things 'head on'. Sometimes a lateral view can raise different questions and get different answers. I'll have to try and get the three volumes by Grant, but it will be next month, this months book allowance has already been spent My own pet subject, as if I need to tell anyone, is the Sharps Rifle Companies Model 1878 Borchardt in all it's forms. As a one time engineer I have also studied it's manufacture and how various machining operations were accomplished. After 50 years I am still making new discoveries. The Internet has been a great boon to researchers, but you still have to check or test every tit bit of information to see if it is reliable and trustworthy, that's half of the fun in doing this work. Again my apologies if I have inadvertently thrown a spanner in the works, but if it has helped in any way, then I am pleased. Regards, Harry
	« Last Edit: Apr 26^th, 2013 at 3:45pm by »

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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #25 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 3:00pm	Print Post
	Lest we forget, the Hadley rimfire device was also installed on Maynard rimfire rifles before Maynard chose to later offset the bores for rimfires. G W Hadley seems to have "initiated" a number of items associated with Maynard firearms.

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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graduated peep Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #26 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 4:02pm	Print Post
	Thanks, BP. I had forgotten about his rimfire adapter.


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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #27 - Apr 26^th, 2013 at 6:37pm	Print Post
	Quote: Lest we forget, the Hadley rimfire device was also installed on Maynard rimfire rifles. . . Thanks for the prompt, BP Here is an image that shows the Hadley device which BP mentions in place with the barrel in the tilt position ready to accept the R.F. case. Because of the Maynard large gap designed into the barrel breech end rearward to the standing breech, the R.F. cartridge would have way too much head space. In a 1873 model Maynard, that designed in gap equalled approximately 1/8 inch. Mr. Hadley answered that problem with the device shown here. The same action will thus shoot C.F. (Maynard cased) ammunition once the Hadley device is thus removed or un-installed. See; (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) C.M.M. .


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creedmoormatch Ex Member	Re: 1873 Maynard Long Range Reply #28 - Aug 12^th, 2013 at 6:45pm	Print Post
	Maynards are on top. C.M.M.


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