Houston,

A Dr Lobowski has the original Sharps Factory Records. He will look the number up and tell you over the phone any information contained in them F.O.C. If you want the carbine 'lettered', I understand the fee is in the $200.00 area. Such a letter adds provenance to the carbine and will increase it's value. 

There were a very large number of these slant breech percussion Sharps made in different calibres, and barrel lengths. Frank Sellers book of Sharps Firearms is well worth reading for information on this carbine and indeed virtually all Sharps Rifles made. You must be very sure of the model type before you give the good Doc the serial number, otherwise the information you get will not necessarily be correct. 

I don't have Dr. Lobowski's phone contact number to hand but I'm sure someone will 'chip in' with it. 

Approximately 80 John Brown serial numbers are known. The number that is consecutive to your friends is 11680. The fact that your friends is one digit off is interesting, but in a case like this close doesn't count. For example, the serial number range of these 80 numbers runs from the lowest 11680 to the highest, 18333. 

This is proof that Sharps (as well as Colt, S&W, etc.) did not manufacture, pack, ship, and distribute guns is exact numerical order. 

John Gross

Not to be argumentative but exactly how are the John Brown numbers known. Did Sharps ship to John Brown with numbers shown in the factory records ? Was there a official inquiry after Harper's Ferry were the numbers were recorded ? Is there some way to separate the guns shipped to Kansas with the ones actually used by John Brown ?

Around here lot of Civil War history, buyers and sellers. More inflated the claim is less likely it's true. On that site he has  Enfield Rifles with exorbitant claims . South Africa was awash with Enfields in the 70's You could buy them at flea markets for 20 bucks and no way at all to tell them from Enfields purchased by the Confederacy

Here is a cut and paste from the Kansas Historical Society.  "Although Beecher's Bible is the most common name for the Sharps rifles and considerable numbers were shipped as books and Bibles, there is some evidence they were also shipped as other items, such as machinery and medicine. The total number of Sharps that reached Kansas between 1854 and 1858 will probably never be known. Fragmentary records indicate somewhere around 900 to 1,000 Sharps were purchased for the border conflict."

Buyer beware

Boats

And that makes it a fact ? Were did Sellers get his information.

If the factory record says John Brown then I would believe it. Look on the web lot of John Brown Rifles for sale amazing so many survived or did they. Look at the Kansas historical society web site they say the information is sketchy. Fact is 1853's are often called "John Brown Sharps" 

Experenced CW collectors don't buy the story.

Boats

Here is the problem.  

It's well known that many Sharps 1853 Carbines were sent to Abolitionist in the border states. And John Brown was no doubt armed by Abolitionist

His purpose at Harper's Ferry was to capture the Arsenal and obtain weapons to arm a Slave Insurrection in Virginia.  The raid itself was carried out by 20 men.  The engine house they retreated to after confrontation with the local Militia is very small, looking at it today 20 would have been a crowd. 

You would have to presume 20 men attacking the Arsenal would not have carried 80 odd Sharps Rifles if the purpose was to carry off more rifles. In fact they were not all armed with Sharps. Brown had a pair of pistols that were handed down from General Layfette as some sort of good luck charm.

When JEB Stuart stormed the Engine house two of the Marines were killed, Came out in the trial one was killed by Brown with a Sharps 1853, long after known as the "John Brown Model"

Go forward to the 20th century. The story gets told and re-told. Now 20 men had 80 Rifles and on the internet today dozens of the 80 are for sale. Few say exactly the rifle listed was the "one" most say it was "like the one"

Not knocking Sellers, he was a Sharps expert, not a Civil War Historian. The story on 80 individual serial numbered rifles does not stand the test of Common sense to anyone who has been there and looked at the ground

Look in the Sharps records find that a particular rifle was shipped to John Brown perhaps. Court records may show the number of the rifle he used to kill the Marine possibly,  otherwise it's just a story that's used to sell 1853's at high prices

Boats

Understand and hope I did not come off too hard on the subject.  Have been a civil war history student for 50 years now. Living in Virginia it's a popular pastime. Always look at all possable sides of any story then apply the what do I think rule.  That's not to say what I think is right it's just opinion based on looking at the topic from many sides. 

Shame of it is so easy to counterfeit Confederate articles that it's almost impossible to say for sure something is real or not so real.  For example if a Blockade runner landed Enfields at Wilmington NC and the Army needed them urgently, would they have gone to the Fayetteville Arsenal for a stamp before being shipped North ? I doubt it. Or did another Enfield with the JS/Anchor stamp get it in 1862 or 1962. Can we tell if a 1962 stamp is real in 2013 50 years later.

Look at this description from a well known shop for a CS Richmond Musket.  Gen Jackson captured the Arsenal at Harper's Ferry and carried wagon loads of rifles and parts back to Richmond were they were assembled into CS Richmond 1863 Muskets.   If you look in the Virginia Museum at a dozen CS Richmond 1863's side by side it's obvious they were hand assembled from parts with no uniformity at all.  So fact that it has a Iron US marked butt plate means nothing. Did the Virginia Arsenal throw a good steel US buttplate away to cast a brass one, I don't think so.

"24308BER C.S. Richmond Confederate Musket, Dated 1863, 40" Barrel, Gun Appears To Be All Confederate Except For The Stock, Stock Is For An 1855 Cut For Tape Primer Inside Of Lock, For end And Butt plate Should Not Be Iron Or Marked U.S. On Top Of Butt plate" 

Anyway 1853 Sharps is a nice gun to have.

Boats

When we read about historical events 150 years later seems the authors always have an agenda

Political, support there point of view
Personal, identify with some relative
Commercial, link some item to the event in order to boost the price
Or just a good readable book

The slave insurrections are interesting by themselves without being too concerned about what type of rifle was used.  In South Side Virginia we had the Nat Turner Rebellion with Militia's raised after the nucleus of Civil war regiments raised years later.

Harpers Ferry is well worth a visit too.

Boats

That's a path to the true story.  Guessing only Sellers does not give the detail, just the reference. Wonder if there is any way to access 156.1 Dec 4th 1859 on line.  It was 6 odd weeks after the raid and may have very interesting details on the firearms used. I will hack around on line see what turns up.

Sharps factory records would say who rifles were shipped to with a high degree of accuracy. Be interesting to know if Brown himself ordered rifles direct from Sharps.  I don't have much concern on that part, it's a pretty universal opinion Abolitionists were armed with rifles purchased from Sharps and Brown himself could well have ordered Carbines. It's passes the common sense test.

Boats

Hope I don't come off looking like beating a dead horse. I am just real interested in the history. Not interested in any rifles value. My CW Carbine collector friend outlined his opinion. For what it's worth.

Sharps made a lot of 1853 Carbines

Number of Firearms, Sharps included were sent by Northern Sympathisers to the border states. None sent to John Brown directly but he ended with a quantity. Shipments were disguised and it's not likely specific numbers can be accounted as shipped to Brown. Brown was a well known agitator and probably hid any purchases. Most likely he was armed with donated weapons.  He's pretty firm in his opinion the train robbery with numbers recorded never happened

When Brown traveled to Virginia to start a slave insurrection he had many weapons, all he could obtain, large number of pikes to be used untill he could obtain guns from the Arsenal. Rented a farm near Harpers ferry as a base of operations storing most of the weapons on the farm.

The attack was with a small number of men Some armed with Sharps Carbines one of which John Brown used killed a Marine. 

After the attack many weapons were taken as souvenirs. Government seized the rest and recorded the details in order to trace the source.  One report said there were 4 empty rifle cases in the barn. He said the government report is the basis of the "John Brown" Sharps legend. He's going to see if he can find the report which was entered in the Congressional Record.

So what's a John Brown Sharps.  Any Model 1853, Model 1853 Shipped to the border states. 1853 with number recorded as seized by the government after the attack. 1853 used By John Brown to murder a US Marine.

Path from many 1853's to only a few used in the Harper's Ferry attack to the one used to murder a US Marine is the reason CW collectors are wary of the "John Brown" Sharps legend

This all one persons opinion.

Boats

This is 2nd hand from that friend of mine, have not found the Congressional Record page yet. But by Cases he means rifle cases, boxes new guns were packed in,  John Brown Firing the shot that killed the Marine is another popular story. He was found guilty of treason, not murder, and hung.

Here is a quote out of Wiki that cast some doubt on Brown firing the fatal shot.

"Quicker than thought I brought my saber down with all my strength upon [Brown's] head. He was moving as the blow fell, and I suppose I did not strike him where I intended, for he received a deep saber cut in the back of the neck. He fell senseless on his side, then rolled over on his back. He had in his hand a short Sharpe's cavalry carbine. I think he had just fired as I reached Colonel Washington, for the Marine who followed me into the aperture made by the ladder received a bullet in the abdomen, from which he died in a few minutes. The shot might have been fired by someone else in the insurgent party, but I think it was from Brown. Instinctively as Brown fell I gave him a saber thrust in the left breast. The sword I carried was a light uniform weapon, and, either not having a point or striking something hard in Brown's accouterments, did not penetrate. The blade bent double."[17]

Going back to the serial numbers quantity of rifles pilfered for souvenirs and others seized with numbers recorded leaves all sorts of questions open on what numbers close to the documented rifles could have been. Did they leave Kansas as a lot or were they individual rifles from various sources

What seems to me the most accurate description of a "John Brown" is from the NRA firearms museum. they use the term "Attributed too" rather than definitive use.

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Still looking for that 1859 Congressional record on line, Wonder why it's so hard to find ?

Boats

My Father ran a small gun shop, and did a fairly brisk business appraising antique firearms.  It never ceased to amaze me how may firearms were brought in to be appraised that had belonged to various celebrities.  Many had documentation to 'prove' ownership, yet the weapons were manufactured AFTER the death of said celebrity.

Attribution of a firearm to a specific person or event is extremely hard to prove.  Beware of newspaper articles that list serial numbers.  That is the sort of detail that is not noted by a reporter.  You do not see the serial numbers of weapons listed today in the news, and you did not see it then.

You might find it listed in court records, but you want to get your hands on the original court records, not a transcription  on the internet, which could have been easily altered.