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TexasRedneck
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Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Apr 14th, 2013 at 1:52pm
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Howdy, folks!

Came across this site last night while trying to do some research on this rifle.  I've had it to my smith to check it over, and am waiting on feedback from him as to caliber and load prior to firing it.

I've always been intrigued by this type of firearm, and when this one came to my attention, I had to "rescue" it - seems the owner had inherited it from their grandfather, and all they could see was "some old gun".  I'd really appreciate any help on ID'ing/more info on it - I primarily collect .45's (if ya'll are on other sites and have seen "TexasRedneck, yeah, it's probably me[smiley=vrolijk_26.gif]).

I'll put up some more pics in following posts - apparently I can only post one pic at a time...
  
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TexasRedneck
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #1 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 1:53pm
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Another....
  
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TexasRedneck
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #2 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 1:53pm
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another....
  
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TexasRedneck
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #3 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 1:54pm
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should have mentioned - it's marked "Buchel" - sorry!
  
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TexasRedneck
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #4 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 1:55pm
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another....
  
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TexasRedneck
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #5 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 1:55pm
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one more!
  
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Fred Boulton
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #6 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 2:38pm
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What you have is an example of the very best of all the German Schuetzen rifles. Under the forend, you should find details of the barrel maker and dateable proof marks. I have one which is a very late example but is in near mint condition except for the diopter sight which is missing.
Fred
  
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Fred Boulton
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #7 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 2:42pm
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I forgot to mention that the calibre is 8.15 x 46R.
The correct "stop-ring" mould is available from NEL and the dies from CH. Brass is easily formed from 30-30.
Fred
  
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TexasRedneck
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #8 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 5:14pm
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Thanks, Fred!  Of course, about half of what you wrote is Greek to these ears.... Embarrassed  Too many years spent collecting .45's, I reckon...now, if you mention a Randall 1911 Southpaw, ah'm there! Grin

So, please feel free to explain slowly to this idjit just what you're sayin' - I understand about the calibre, but is this one of those that you run the bullet in via the barrel, and insert a charged/primered case in the breech?
  
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Walter  Matera
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #9 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 5:20pm
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It's not necessary but most of the serious competitors do.  See if someone anywhere near you has a copy of Alte Scheinwaffen, especially Vol I.  You might be able to get it on inter-library loan.  The book is gun porn and the history of German target shooting is really interesting.
  
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oughtsix
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #10 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 8:59pm
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I bet Grandpa was in WWII,  found this "old gun"   and liberated it.    All the markings on the rifle will tell you a lot about where it was made and maybe who made it.  I am not  that knowledgeable (yet)  but there are those  on the site that can decipher the marks.   And if you decide to part with it,  the  "for sale" area is the right spot. 

Hope that  learning about the rifle   will convert you to a single shot shooter 

-06
  

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I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters........ Frank Lloyd Wright
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TexasRedneck
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #11 - Apr 14th, 2013 at 9:13pm
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Thanks for all the input and welcome, folks!  As I mentioned, I'm a bit of a .45 freak/nut - just added 2 more to the collection today, in fact - so the jury is out as to whether I'll keep it, but I at LEAST want to shoot it before making any decision.  There's a Schuetzen club here, so I'm gonna be talking to them as soon as I get the time!  They focus primarily on .22's, but I'm betting there'll be folks there that'll be able to tell me about shooting/handling it properly!
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #12 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 8:19am
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One quick word of warning. The rear sight looks cobbled together. This is not unusual an many "liberated" guns came home without sights. Have your smith make a chamber cast to make sure that the rifle has not also been re-chambered. Many guys had these re-chambered to 32 Winchester Special so they would have readily available brass.

40 Rod
  
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Fred Boulton
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #13 - Apr 15th, 2013 at 9:54am
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The Germans never really went in for muzzle loading over a blank case or breach seating the bullet into the rifling and then using a blank. if still in 8.15 x 46R, it will have a long tapered throat. The bullet has a raised lead "stop-ring" around it about half way along its length. After fire forming the cases to the chamber, you reload without dies, pushing the bullet into the case by hand until the stop-ring hits the case neck. I have a breech seater for mine and have tried it out, but accuracy is better with the correct bullet loaded as Buchel intended. It will easily group into less than an inch at 100 yds.
Fred
  
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TexasRedneck
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #14 - Oct 12th, 2014 at 4:43pm
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I'm still here - just had a computer crash that also took all my bookmarks....

We're going to finally do a cast next weekend - will see what it reveals!
  
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Richinsd
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #15 - Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:18am
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TexasRedneck:

It appears to be an AYDT swinging block according to Frank  de Haas - Single Shot Rifles and Actions- Gun Digest 1969

If you are interested, I could copy the info  and send it.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #16 - Oct 13th, 2014 at 7:03pm
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Richinsd wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 8:18am:
TexasRedneck:

It appears to be an AYDT swinging block according to Frank  de Haas - Single Shot Rifles and Actions- Gun Digest 1969

If you are interested, I could copy the info  and send it.


Looks like a plain Jane version of the AYDT I had.
  

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Longdistance1
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #17 - Oct 13th, 2014 at 10:12pm
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It's a Buchel Meister not a an Aydt if you go to Biggi's web page she has a lot of German rifles pictured and if you can read German or if there is translation app there is a bunch of info on this site. Maybe someone can put up a link to Biggi's web page I don't know how.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #18 - Oct 13th, 2014 at 10:43pm
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Longdistance1 wrote on Oct 13th, 2014 at 10:12pm:
It's a Buchel Meister not a an Aydt if you go to Biggi's web page she has a lot of German rifles pictured


Well, I guess it looks a little different than my Aydt  Grin
  

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westerner
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #19 - Oct 14th, 2014 at 7:42pm
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It's a rolling block. They shot buffalo's with those.  No, it's a flying squirrel gun from Austria. That's what it is. Roll Eyes

          Joe.
  

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40-65tom
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #20 - Oct 15th, 2014 at 8:37am
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Texas red neck I sent you a PM. I am close by and have two of these rifles and all the proper equipment to load. Let me know if I can help.
Tom
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Trying for some additional info, and an intro....
Reply #21 - Oct 29th, 2014 at 7:40pm
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For accurate shooting a good chamber cast is mandatory.  There  were a lot of minor variations on the basic 8.15x46 rimmed case since many of the guns were bought as action or barreled action and then  assembled and stocked to the customer's personal dimensions.  The Germans mostly purchased bullets from supply houses that cast/swedged and lubed them.  Catalogues that I have seen from those companies show hundreds of variations.  If you can get a case and bullet design that will fit your specific chamber/bore/throat properly (and if the bore is good) it should be capable of good accuracy.

Those style rifles are stocked for offhand shooting. With accurate loads and good sights, in the hands of a good offhand rifleman who fits the stock properly it should be capable of 3 or4 MOA or better.

Since your barrel has the dovetail rib on the top flat you won't have to D/T a nice antique rifle for modern mounts. One of our "supporting" machinist/artist/magicians, Steve Earle has designed a clamp-on base that allows one to use target scopes.   There are a few specialized sources for the "correct" (and not inexpensive) rear sights for a rifle of that type.

That kind of unique germanic sporting rifle is relatively uncommon though not truly "rare". They were were formal target rifles and probably already several generations old when they were "confiscated" by the GIs  and brought back as souvenirs.
   Unless they are completely intact with their original sights (rear sights are most commonly missing and the very very fine pinhead front sights are often broken off) rifles in good condition can  be had for 1000 +/- a few hundred. Condition of course is key.
With complete original sights, that price might double. Fancy elegantly carved wood, quality engraving etc can add even more.
The key in most oddball gun deals is the willing buyer willing seller thing.  Another especially for a shooter is how well the stock "fits".
 
« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2014 at 7:53pm by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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