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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) too soft lead for casting (Read 10175 times)
Aussie_Hunter
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too soft lead for casting
Apr 2nd, 2013 at 11:39pm
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have a large batch of recycled projectile that seem to have had the tin component lowered way too low ( I think we had it too hot when melting for the first time and also it had a high proportion of .22lr projectiles in it. Cant get my hands on any lino type for love or money  and am looking for suggestions to up the tin content. Looked at using solder but amount needed would make it unrealistic. Had a few jars of tin ore until I threw them away a few years ago Murphy is alive and well!!Any suggestions greatly appreciated.
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #1 - Apr 2nd, 2013 at 11:54pm
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I’m not sure what you’re asking. The recipe that I’ve been using is 1 in 20 (5% tin) However, recently I’ve been trying 1 in 16 (6.25% tin) with good results, and I’ve heard rumors that some folks are even using 1 in 10 (10% tin).
« Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2013 at 12:05am by Schutzenbob »  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #2 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 12:05am
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I learned to stay away from linotype because the antimony content results in faster leading than pure tin alloys in rifle barrels. The Lead:Tin alloys frequently shot are:

30:1 (3.2% Tin)
25:1 (3.8% Tin)
22:1 (4.3% Tin)
20:1 (4.8% Tin)

Black powder shooters prefer a bit softer lead and Schuetzen shooters using smokeless are mostly using 22:1 or 20:1.

When melting an alloy the alloy will melt first at a lower temperature and the stuff floating is waste metals (Zinc, Aluminum) and should be scooped off and discarded. People think that the Tin is being released. No the Lead:Tin alloy will melt first and the stuff floating on top before it gets too hot is waste metals that help lead your barrel. I clean the surface as soon as it melts to get a purer alloy. Fluxing helps drive some of the impurities back into the alloy. 

I prefer to eliminate as much of the impurities that I can as opposed to having it mixed into the alloy.

Save the antimony for use in handguns.
Yes antimony helps fill out a mold better; but I have found with tough weather conditions it will also lead up a rifle barrel much quicker.

Get a hardness tester and then you will know the amount of tin in your alloy and then you can calculate how much you need to add to get your desired alloy.

I use 30% Tin solder (waste left over in radiator shops) and mix it 1 pound solder to 5 pounds pure lead to get roughly a 20:1 alloy. Got 500 pounds of floor sweepings from a radiator shop and it appears it will meet my life time needs for Tin.

I have been using radiator shop solder and scrap lead for the last ten years. Just make sure you clean it before casting with it.
« Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2013 at 12:15am by Schuetzendave »  
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frnkeore
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #3 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 1:21am
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am looking for suggestions to up the tin content.

Go into the for sale section on this forum, there was a guy selling a large lot of tin, see if he still has any.

I've never used it but, pewter is about 98+% tin I think, You can find it at yard sells. I paid $2 for a pewter plater early last summer to use but, I came on to 200 pounds of pure tin so, I never used it.

Some babbit bearing matrial has a lot of tin in it but, mix it in small quanitys to see if it works if you don't know the exact make up.

Other than that, solder is about it, look at yard sells and second stores and tool stores.

Frank
« Last Edit: Apr 3rd, 2013 at 11:43am by frnkeore »  

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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #4 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 7:17am
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I buy the lead-free solder dross from the plant where I work.  The LTL (less than truck load) prices are VERY reasonable.  Rendering yields about 80%.

Look for manufacturing companies.  There are about 230 people that work where I do, making motors, and I glean about 120 to 180 lbs of dross a year.  (We do about $40-50 million in business a year.)

Next best would be a recycler business.  Even if that doubles the cost per pound the price would be right.

Automotive radiator repair usually uses 60-40 solder (Sn-Pb).  Not a bad place to get scrap as well.

Yard sales often will yield small bits of solder.
  

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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #5 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 9:12am
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I agree with Bob stay away from Linotype or Monotype material. It is too hard and crumbly to shoot accoratly. What you have with range scrap is mystry metal. Because there is rimfire metal there is already too much antimony in it for my taste. 
My advice is use only pure lead and tin for your bullets. The more antimony you use the worse you'll shoot.

40 Rod
  
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John Boy
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #6 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 11:02am
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Quote:
have a large batch of recycled projectile that seem to have had the tin component lowered way too low ( I think we had it too hot when melting for the first time and also it had a high proportion of .22lr projectiles in it.
First, one has to know what the Bhn rating is for the recycled projectiles.  Then what is the intended Bhn that one wants to use.
There are calculators, here is one ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

If it were me, I would mix wheel weights to the mix to increase the Bhn.  Clip on WW's normally are Bhn 13.5 or 15.4 hardness

Using Sn is expensive and adding more than 2% tin to a mix decreases the obturation of the bullet in the bore.  I never add more than a half percentage to the mix which increases the fill out of the bullet in the mold
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #7 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 11:29am
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Wheel weights use to have 2% antimony which I have learned to avoid mixing into my alloys.

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mb3240
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #8 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 11:37am
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Great forum guys.   I have learned more here than in all the articles I have read. Cool
« Last Edit: Apr 6th, 2013 at 12:10am by »  
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selmerfan
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #9 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 3:09pm
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If you're casting your boolits for the Schuetzen loads, you'll find a treasure trove of information over at (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links), including a great classifieds section where you should be able to pick up tin or tin/lead mixes and find places to have your alloy analyzed or get a better idea of identifying the contents of your alloy.
  
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JLouis
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #10 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 3:22pm
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #11 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 3:37pm
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I like soft..for my BPCR rifles with smokeless I have found 20-1 led-tin alloy plenty hard enough.  For revolvers I can go even softer with my target velocity loads.  Even when  shooting cast in the Hornet & .222 Rem., I use a diluted steriotype metal..alot softer than Lyno.  It seems alot of casters are being brainwashed on the need for extreem hardness...even for mid-range loads..and then they wonder why they are having leading problems.
  
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macca
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #12 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 4:58pm
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pure tin in pellet form. Will post to your door Wink
  
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #13 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 5:50pm
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I have a pile of sheet lead which is very soft. Anything wrong with using this for schuetzen? I come from a muzzleloading backround so all this harder lead stuff is new to me. Embarrassed
  
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bnice
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Re: too soft lead for casting
Reply #14 - Apr 3rd, 2013 at 6:13pm
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northern smelter looks to be an Australian company, maybe a little pricey to call let alone mail from?
  
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