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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) My inheritance :) (Read 17137 times)
selmerfan
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My inheritance :)
Mar 10th, 2013 at 5:45pm
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I inherited this rifle quite a few years back.  I've used it for casual target shooting and occasional squirrel hunting.  Only recently did I realize that it is a "takedown" and that I can equip it with a centerfire rifle barrel!  It will be headed to the skilled hands of the Shuttleworth's at CPA as soon as I have the funds together for the .30-30 barrel - and I'm close on that one!  All original, my great-grandfather purchased it new and used it for small-bore match shooting.  My grandfather never used it, kept it oiled and in the closet.  It came home after grandma moved to the nursing home and now I'm putting it to good use.  Original J.C. Stevens 6x scope which I had Parsons scope service clean up internally and now is quite good.  My mother has insisted this stay in the family - as if I'd sell it!  My goal is surprise her by taking it along on the annual family mule deer hunt in western SD next fall with the .30-30 barrel screwed on. :grin:
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Bent_Ramrod
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #1 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 7:34pm
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That looks to be a slightly modified Stevens #404 "Semi-Military" position .22 RF target rifle.  Somebody modified the finger lever for better offhand support and maybe modified or replaced the buttplate.  The workmanship of the modifications is quite good.

You can see the holes for the original Lyman receiver sight on the right side of the frame.  A lot of shooters removed this and replaced it with a tang sight or a scope.

That model is pretty uncommon, especially in the nice condition yours is in.  Most people who wanted a Stevens .22 rifle for military type shooting bought the #414, built on the Stevens 44 action.  You ought to order a separate centerfire breechblock and extractor so you can change calibers without doing anything irrevocable to the original parts.

The screw through the center of the receiver gave a surface for the spring ejector on the .22 RF extractor to kick off from,  It does not generally show up on 44-1/2 centerfire receivers.
  
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wthw
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #2 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 9:46pm
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Please Do Not Touch this rifle.  Your Great Grandfather will roll over in his grave.  It' is very RARE, it has a Harry Pope design tang sight on it.  As the other gentleman says it has a few modification but they are very well done.  The scope should have a number on it but the eyepiece appears to have been modified.  I was recently considering converting one of my standard 44 1/2's to 17 Hornet.  The technician at Hornady  says even the 44 1/2's are only safe to about 38,000 psi and their ammo is loaded to 49,000.  I'm not sure what 30-30 ammo is loaded to these days but I'll bet it's over 38k psi.  Please don't modify this rifle.....I'd be more than happy to make a trade or purchase if you ever want to get rid of it.  I'd really appreciate more photo's of this rifle, which front sight is on it etc.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #3 - Mar 10th, 2013 at 10:28pm
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The 44 1/2 action will handle centerfire chamberings safely but I am not sure about the .30-30. CPA will be able to tell you if it is safe. If it is, and CPA does the work, you should be able to do it without doing any permanent damage to a beautiful family gun. That being said, there is a lot to be said for leaving it exactly as it is and continuing to use it as your great grandfather did as a great .22 target rifle. They are extremely rare and the family connection makes it all that much better. I recently finaly obtained one of these and have not had time to realy sort it out and shoot it other than function. Beautiful family heirloom!
Just remembered that I have a 44 1/2 in .38-55 which was a factroy offering. This may be a better choice than the .30-30 if you decide to convert it to centerfire.
« Last Edit: Mar 10th, 2013 at 10:42pm by slumlord44 »  
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John Boy
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #4 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 6:51am
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Gentlemen, the poster ran a thread on Cast Boolits about the same rifle and proposed caliber.  He has already made a caliber decision ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

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I've made the decision, it will be a .30-30 for a wide variety of reasons. The rifle will never be sold while I'm alive and it will stay in the family. My girls already love shooting it from the bench in the .22 LR configuration.


And here's another Cast Boolits thread he started on the same subject... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

On this one, he talked with Gail and Paul ... Paul said go ahead with the 30-30 barrel
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2013 at 7:03am by »  
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boats
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #5 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 6:53am
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You can get "almost" 30/30 performance from the 32/40 using jacketed bullets and higher than cast pressures but still mild loads.  32/40 was factory chambered for the 44 1/2 I don't think 30/30 ever was

Boats
  
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selmerfan
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #6 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 1:09pm
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I've been in steady contact with Paul and Gail about putting another barrel on this firearm.  They've seen the pictures, helped me ID the rifle, and Paul had no hesitancy in recommending the .30-30 as a deer hunting barrel.  .30-30 max loads listed in the manuals don't go over 38,000 PSI and from the research I've done, this action was made to handle up to 50,000 PSI, but I don't want to push it.  John Boy and frnkeo have helped me out over at castboolits as well - thanks guys!  If someone can make a strong case that I should NOT put a .30-30 barrel on this action, I'm willing to hear it.  I handload every centerfire that I shoot, as well as cast boolits.  I'm not a hot-rodder and simply want a chambering that I can use for deer hunting and possibly (hopefully) participating in a Schuetzen match.  I already have .30-30 dies, brass, bullets, molds, and powders, reducing the cost of the changeover.  If I'm totally off the wall here, please chime in.  The only other SS that I own is a TC Encore.  I know this action is NOT that strong, but have been led to believe that the .30-30 is not over-burdening the pressure limit.  And I may want to load it with moderate jacketed loads for deer hunting. (Heresy, I know) Smiley  Thanks for the input, I'll put up some more pictures.  I've got pics of the sight, but not quality ones.  I'll take some other ones.  I've asked about ID'ing the rear sight.  Some say it's a Pope, some say it's a copy of a Pope.  I don't really know, there are no positive ID marks on it.  I know that it is supremely accurate as a .22 LR setup - squirrel head shots at 50 yds are slam dunks.
  
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selmerfan
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #7 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 1:17pm
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And John Boy - I'm prone to changing my mind.  Can we put together a comparison between the .32-40 and .38-55 and .30-30 for deer hunting and Schuetzen matches?  I know that a 200 gr. .35 cal cast boolit is hell on deer out to 175 yds, starting at 1700 fps from a .357 Maximum from personal experience handgun hunting in Iowa.  Does the .38-55 or .32-40 provide comparable terminal performance?  The Krag is larger than I'll go, so I'll say my choices are down to .30-30, .38-55, or .32-40.  I cast boolits, so jacketed is not required, though I don't mind the option being available.  Let's have it guys, I'm open to opinions and experiences.
  
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selmerfan
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #8 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 3:37pm
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I had some folks ask about the rear sight.  Here are some sight specific photos.  I don't know the ID positively beyond that it's apparently a 200 yd. Schuetzen sight?  Input welcome.
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boats
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #9 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 5:57pm
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Paul knows his stuff and if he says so no doubt the action would handle 30/30

Thing that I would think about is the Stevens Factory chambered for 32/40 never Chambered for 30/30  32/40 is in keeping with the original specs and would be a better selling point if the rifle is ever sold, and they all get sold sometime. Most of us on this forum would not pick up a 44 1/2 chambered in 30/30 off a gun show table. We are Stevens snobs true.

If you look at the Cartridge particulars in Col Whelans 1920 The American Rifle,  Jacketed bullets both, 30/30 170 gets 2008 FPS 32/40 170 is clocked at 2065 FPS. Little bit better B/C to the 30 cal but not enough any Deer would know the difference

32/40 it would be chambered in a traditional Stevens Caliber not a Winchester caliber

38/55 more capable than either and with the 38/55 you may be able to get away with Cast Bullets at more modest velocity and deliver adequate deer performance.  30's and 32's you need expanding jacketed bullets.  

38/55 will be much easier to shoot than 30/30 recoil and muzzle blast wise. I shoot both in competion Single Shot 38/55 Lever Silhouette 30/30 signifigant difference in how easy the 38 is to shoot compared to the 30.  38/55  does have higher mid range trajectory less sure hit distance than the 30/30. My 36A Marlin 30/30 24 inch barrel does not rise more than 2 inches zero to 150 yards.   Actually the trajectory is the 38/55's hold back not energy on target if heavy bullets are used. Mid range on the 38/55 is about 9 inches enough to shoot over his back if mis estimating distance.  38/55 is way more capable than any 357 magnum. Larger hole longer bullet higher S/D same velocity same mid range trajectory

It's all opinion though and that's mine

Boats
« Last Edit: Mar 11th, 2013 at 6:07pm by boats »  
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slumlord44
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #10 - Mar 11th, 2013 at 5:59pm
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My personal choice would be the .38-55. Semantics largely and to me the larger hole you can put in something, the better.
  
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waterman
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #11 - Mar 13th, 2013 at 3:43am
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Your rear sight is a Pope design marketed by Stevens, 1900 to about 1915.  Less-than-marvelous reproductions sell for $300+ when you can find them.  Good reproductions sell for over $400.  You have an original that is probably original to the rifle.

They are a PITA to adjust for elevation, but once adjusted, they stay put.  Windage adjustment is easy.  I have one of the PU reproductions on my vintage Farrow gallery rifle.  It works fine, even if much sloppier than the original.

The sights were designed for lead bullet Schuetzens.  Mine can be adjusted for any range from 50 feet to 200 yards when shooting 22 LR target ammo.  After that, I run out of elevation screw.
  
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John Boy
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #12 - Mar 13th, 2013 at 8:34am
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Quote:
Less-than-marvelous reproductions sell for $300+ when you can find them.

Sergio, owner of Red River Sight Co. in Canada makes a quality reproduction of the Pope sight for Ballard & Stevens rifles for $285 without the sun shade ...
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selmerfan
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #13 - Mar 14th, 2013 at 9:16am
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I sent pics into Buffalo Arms.  They also ID'd it as an original Pope sight.  They wouldn't put a value on it, basically however much someone is willing to pay, as it is hard to find originals in good condition.  This one will stay with the rifle - the case coloring on the tang beneath the sight is 100% perfect, which tells me that it has been with the gun since my great-grandfather purchased it.  Though the offer I had is tempting - I could buy the repro that John Boy linked to plus another CPA barrel with what I was offered for the sight from a member here.
  
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selmerfan
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #14 - Mar 14th, 2013 at 10:02am
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wthw wrote on Mar 10th, 2013 at 9:46pm:
Please Do Not Touch this rifle.  Your Great Grandfather will roll over in his grave.  It' is very RARE, it has a Harry Pope design tang sight on it.  As the other gentleman says it has a few modification but they are very well done.  The scope should have a number on it but the eyepiece appears to have been modified.  I was recently considering converting one of my standard 44 1/2's to 17 Hornet.  The technician at Hornady  says even the 44 1/2's are only safe to about 38,000 psi and their ammo is loaded to 49,000.  I'm not sure what 30-30 ammo is loaded to these days but I'll bet it's over 38k psi.  Please don't modify this rifle.....I'd be more than happy to make a trade or purchase if you ever want 
to get rid of it.  I'd really appreciate more photo's of this rifle, which front sight is on it etc.

I've got some photos of the front sight and scope in more detail.  Here you go.
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The empty insert you see is the spacer I had made to make up the thickness difference so that I could use the stamped MVA inserts
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Scope
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selmerfan
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #15 - Mar 14th, 2013 at 10:02am
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Perfect lenses...
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[IMG]http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/selmerfan/IMG_5357_zps14fd51d3.jpg
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slumlord44
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #16 - Mar 14th, 2013 at 7:39pm
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Glak to see you are going to keep it. I have the two Browning A 5's that my dad had and the 20 guage Light Weight that he bought new in 1960 goes to my nephew, his first grandson, when I am gone. Great to keep family guns in the family.
  
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #17 - Mar 16th, 2013 at 12:10pm
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Is this the same rifle that was listed with no price in the for sale/trade section yesterday and sold in a flash?
  
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rollingblock
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #18 - Mar 16th, 2013 at 12:16pm
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Oops, my bad. looks like it was the Stevens #47 lefty posted under Collecting Single Shot Rifles
  
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selmerfan
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #19 - Mar 16th, 2013 at 7:49pm
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This rifle is NOT and never will be, for sale.  Thanks for all of the help with ID - the Shuttleworths said that it's a bit of an oddball - a 404, but with a 44 1/2 frame, and Gail liked the scope. Smiley  I'm close to the final fundraising goal, a few more saxophone lessons and I'll be there, then it will be headed to CPA.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #20 - Mar 16th, 2013 at 10:30pm
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It is a rare one for sure. Keep us advised as to how it works out.
  
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Walter  Matera
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #21 - Mar 16th, 2013 at 10:56pm
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Absolutely!  We will want pix when it comes back.
  
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selmerfan
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #22 - Apr 5th, 2014 at 11:12pm
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For those of you who stuck with me on this a year ago - I have the rifle back and have had it back for quite a while, but rudely forgot to report back to ya'll.  In the end, after phone conversations with Paul and Gail, they recommended the .30-40 Krag for my purposes, which is what I went with.  Here's a pic for you.
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I've been working exclusively with cast boolits - NOE 311299 copy - and getting fantastic precision - 1/2 MOA groups with loads it likes with Unique, 2400, AA #9, etc in that burn range.  I did work up a load with Varget for hunting purposes with the 311299 - sub-MOA out to 200 yds, launching around 2000 fps.  Really enjoying the rifle and have learned how to swap out the barrels and breechblocks efficiently enough to make it worth doing on a regular basis - not hard - a bit more than an Encore barrel swap, but not too much.
  
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Walter  Matera
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #23 - Apr 6th, 2014 at 4:21pm
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A rifle to be proud of.  CPA did as fine a job on your conversion as we all hoped.  It's just lovely.  Now you need to build a proper oak and brass box with felt lining to carry/display it in.  Cool
  
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blunderbus41
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Re: My inheritance :)
Reply #24 - Apr 6th, 2014 at 6:59pm
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The front sight is identical to the one on my 414 .22cal. john
  
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