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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) When to use/not-use magnum primers (Read 13232 times)
John Boy
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #15 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 11:26am
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Peep, low brisance was written and talked about back into the 1800's - Helford and Mann ...
When black was the only powder, there were black powder primers with low bisance.  Then came semi and smokeless powders.  The shooters complained their rounds weren't igniting properly.  So the primer companies increased the charge and even added such stuff as ground glass.  Then with the invention of powders for the wildcats, more primer changes to ignite the powders, glass and aluminum.

Us poor BPCR shooters were now without BP primers and had to devise the use of primers to deflagurate the powder - not whack the bottom of the charge and explode it.

Yes, Garbe & MLV did advocate magnums but if you go down the match equipment listing and the discussions on the BP forums - folks have moved to low briance primers as was advocated by the writers of the 1800's.  About the only BPCR shooter that has any of the old BP primers that came up in a thread discussion of briance is Kenny Wasserberger
  
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Elijah
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #16 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 11:48am
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Venturino and Garbe were most adamant in the use of Federal 215 primers in particular in their book on Buffalo Rifles with the larger calibers. Steve Garbe recommended LP primers in calibers under 40-45 caliber, IIRC, and in particular the 32-40 and 38-55 indicating how much better accuracy was with pistol primers in the smaller calibers. I think that book was written back in the 90's but what held true then wouldn't you think it still does? But, what do I know? Those of us that are fairly new to BPCR shooting read from the "masters" about magnum primers usage in BP rifles and figure that's what you need to buy.
« Last Edit: Oct 6th, 2013 at 11:54am by »  
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gunlaker
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #17 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 12:18pm
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I think that in the days of magnum primer recommendations that most people were using Goex powder and Swiss was a new thing in America so the powder has changed as well.

  You can still develop good loads with magnum primers if you work at it.  I find that Federal Magnum Match primers work well with reasonably large charges of Fg Goex.  My CSA .45-70 shoots ten shot strings with 76gr of Goex Fg with velocity standard deviations of 5fps or less.  My last chrony session showed an SD of 4.5 which is not too bad in my books.

With that said I use CCI BR2's in most of my BP loads and pistol primers in the smaller cases. Smiley

Chris.
  
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graduated peep
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #18 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 12:32pm
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Speaking of powder, the "old masters of the range" used to recommend FG for anything .40 and above.Try finding THAT at the local gun emporium. 
And back in the day, "Elephant"( I think that was what it was called) brand powder was all the rage. I believe it was made in Brazil ????
Maybe by now the cans are collector items ! Cheesy
  
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JLouis
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #19 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 12:50pm
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When looking at high speed pictures showing the Brisance difference in the primers currently being offered gives one a better understanding of the Mag primers. For example the Win. Large Pistol and Win. Large Rifle Magnum are identical and some of the other Mag. primers are not as harsh as some of the non magnum primers. One primer that was an eye opener to me in the small variety is the Rem. 71/2BR's, it's a blow torch and has far more Brisance then any Mag both large or small yet produces extremely good accuracy results. The word Mag. added to a primer is really a misconception.

JLouis
  

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JLouis
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #20 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 1:07pm
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Scroll to the bottom to see photos.

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JLouis
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #21 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 1:27pm
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Here is the article on the Large with photos.
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Elijah
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #22 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 1:41pm
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Having taken for face value the recommendations in their book, I bought 5K Federal 215 primers recently. Looks like with all the aforementioned info it was all for naught. They were using Goex and Swiss back then.
  
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JLouis
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #23 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 2:16pm
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Your 215 primers just might be the cat's meow for you so not to worry. I have found the only true experts are us the ones thinking outside outside the box that find by trial an error those things that work better than what the so called experts spout. Not all things are equal when it comes to what works best in each individual's rifle yet we are told daily that only this powder and this primer and this alloy and this bullet design will only provide thee best results. I have found out over the years it is all hog wash and you best find what truly works on your own by trying every combination one can come up with as there is one out there that will truly be special just for you.

JLouis

  

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John Boy
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #24 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 3:17pm
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Thanks John for the Salazar links.  He did a great job defining both the SR & LR primers.  Have his article links ... they are tough to find (near impossible) but IMO the best low brisance primer would be the PMC LR
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So the go to primers for me are the Federal GM210M and the CCI BR2's for black powder
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) ... note the minimum amount of particle flares from either aluminum or glass
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)  ... and boy, are they expensive these days!

For a test of low brisance ... before I got creamed by Super Storm Sandy, Kurt Hardcastle sent me 12 SS rings to reduce LR cases to SR cases.  I have but not yet tested a comparison of 12 rounds of 32-40, 38-55 and 45-70 with and without the SS rings loaded with Rem 7 1/2 SR's to load and take to the range for testing with my favorite smokeless and black powder reloads.  I'll get around to it one of these months  Wink

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shovel80
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #25 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 3:36pm
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I'm still using Federal LR Mag. Match Primers and Goex Cartridge Powder that are 13 years old....
Gotta use them up..

Terry Smiley
  

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Elijah
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #26 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 5:02pm
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I can't help but wonder how my old favorite CCI LR primers would have done in that test. I've used those in smokeless since 1969 and never a failure. Shot some fine groups in different calibers with that primer. I haven't tried them with BP yet.
  
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JLouis
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #27 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 5:57pm
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I am anxious to see LR, SR test results JohnBoy it should prove to be very interesting. There was a real good article in a past Journal with flash photos that centered more around the primers we typically use. Having both Salazar's and the Journal's articles makes the primer study allot more comprehensive.

JLouis
  

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JLouis
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #28 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 6:07pm
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Elijah I am currently using BR2's and the 200's in my 32-40 and I can't see a noticeable difference. I did not foresee the second round of hoarding and got caught with my pants done and they were all I could get. Win.LRMags. with 300MP seems to work the best for me. I am using the BR2's and 200's with H-108 and the results have so far been exceptional. I will get back to the 300MP if and when primer availability gets back to normal.

JLouis
  

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gunlaker
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Re: When to use/not-use magnum primers
Reply #29 - Oct 6th, 2013 at 7:22pm
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The SR tests would be interesting indeed.  I'm sure that someone here must have had some RMC cases cut for small rifle primers eh?

Chris.
  
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