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Re: My Gallary (Read 12137 times)
marlinguy
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Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!
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Re: My Gallary
Nov 20
th
, 2012 at 11:12am
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Very nice! Does it use a modified CF extractor, or sliding rimfire .22 extractor?
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westerner
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #1 -
Nov 21
st
, 2012 at 7:47pm
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Hi Will, nice rifle. Is it a Pacific action?
Joe.
A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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Chuckster
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #2 -
Nov 22
nd
, 2012 at 9:19am
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Going to show my ignorance. Thought three line markings were an indication of a cast action. Thought Pacific's were forged and generally had two line markings. Really nice rifle.
Chuck
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marlinguy
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #3 -
Nov 22
nd
, 2012 at 2:43pm
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Chuckster wrote
on Nov 22
nd
, 2012 at 9:19am:
Going to show my ignorance. Thought three line markings were an indication of a cast action. Thought Pacific's were forged and generally had two line markings. Really nice rifle.
Chuck
No Chuckster, you are correct (mostly). There are some exceptions, but most 3 line Ballards are cast. It's pretty common to see modified Ballards, and I've seen a number of double set trigger cast actions, and they always use the Pacific set triggers and lever combo whether it's a factory setup, or a modified Ballard. My factory DST #2 looks like a Pacific without the wiping rod and thimbles. The seller thought it was something special when I looked at it to purchase. It made the purchase really tough to tell him he had a DST #2 and not some higher valued Ballard.
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Last Edit: Nov 22
nd
, 2012 at 2:48pm by marlinguy
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frnkeore
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #4 -
Nov 22
nd
, 2012 at 4:57pm
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the third line includes the patent date for the reversible firing pin. if it's a 3 line it was originally a cf/rf cartridge and most of them (maybe all) were low power and built on cast frames. you can see the wide, flat, reversible type firing pin on will's rifle. cf models like the #4, pacific and other didn't have the third line because they were strictly cf rifles.
frank
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Last Edit: Nov 22
nd
, 2012 at 5:12pm by frnkeore
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marlinguy
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #5 -
Nov 22
nd
, 2012 at 11:59pm
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frnkeore wrote
on Nov 22
nd
, 2012 at 4:57pm:
the third line includes the patent date for the reversible firing pin. if it's a 3 line it was originally a cf/rf cartridge and most of them (maybe all) were low power and built on cast frames. you can see the wide, flat, reversible type firing pin on will's rifle. cf models like the #4, pacific and other didn't have the third line because they were strictly cf rifles.
frank
I have seen forged receivers with the 3 line address, but they are rare.
Will, your Ballard was never a Pacific. They never made a cast action into a Pacific that I've ever heard of or seen.
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kootne
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #6 -
Nov 23
rd
, 2012 at 10:13pm
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marlinguy wrote;
I have seen forged receivers with the 3 line address, but they are rare.
Will, your Ballard was never a Pacific. They never made a cast action into a Pacific that I've ever heard of or seen. [/quote]
I saw a pacific with a cast reciever a few years ago. barrel, blocks & frame #'s matched (30,000+ so a late gun) I was shocked to see that and should have got some pictures because now I'll be grouped with folks that report bigfoot sightings. caliber was 45-70
kootne
You can't make good decisions without good information.
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marlinguy
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #7 -
Nov 24
th
, 2012 at 1:40pm
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If I installed thimbles, wiping rod, and a Pacific forearm, my #2's with cast DST actions would look like a Pacific, and all the numbers would match. Bore the barrel to .45-70, and it's just like what you described.
I'd examine a Pacific with a cast receiver very closely, and disassemble it before a purchase. Not all numbers matching Ballards are original, and with no records of production it's very hard to tell skilled forgeries from the real thing. I know guys who can make these things look factory, and I've been fooled until they showed me.
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frnkeore
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #8 -
Nov 24
th
, 2012 at 3:32pm
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the very reason that i now know about the 3 line address is because i got burnt. i bought what i thought was a #4 in 32/40 with all matching numbers and a perfect barrel. we discussed my rifle on this forum and i learned a lot. though it was very suttle, it was pointed out to me the the barrel numbers were slightly different. had i known about the 3 line it would have saved me at least $400.
think about it, why would ballard put a reverable firing pin in a cf only chambering? and if a 3 line has a cf firing pin, that raises red flags, too.
frank
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kootne
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #9 -
Nov 24
th
, 2012 at 4:18pm
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will; nice old ballard, treat her special. my first love was ballard #3.
marlinguy, the pacific I saw w/cast reciever was a canoe paddle, no finish, brown patina, lots of crud and nothing in very good shape so don't think it was faked (what would be the point?), it was not for sale but to be restored. the barrel was just under reciever width and no tulip. I've never seen a #2 without a tuliped barrel, not to say they don't exist either but not common. a #2 with dst & heavy barrel to make a matching # pacific would be taking a very unusual rifle to make a common one. my guess is the gun was a factory screwup but that is just a guess.
kootne
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marlinguy
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #10 -
Nov 24
th
, 2012 at 7:00pm
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frnkeore wrote
on Nov 24
th
, 2012 at 3:32pm:
the very reason that i now know about the 3 line address is because i got burnt. i bought what i thought was a #4 in 32/40 with all matching numbers and a perfect barrel. we discussed my rifle on this forum and i learned a lot. though it was very suttle, it was pointed out to me the the barrel numbers were slightly different. had i known about the 3 line it would have saved me at least $400.
think about it, why would ballard put a reverable firing pin in a cf only chambering? and if a 3 line has a cf firing pin, that raises red flags, too.
frank
Frank,
Both of my cast #2 Ballards with DST breechblocks have CF only round firing pins. When someone ordered a #2 with DST they got the standard DST breechblock which wasn't available usually in a reversible firing pin.
So you get a 3 line address, and a round firing pin, which further confuses many folks. Everyone assumes a round pin and DST mean a forged action, even if it is a 3 line address.
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marlinguy
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #11 -
Nov 24
th
, 2012 at 7:05pm
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kootne wrote
on Nov 24
th
, 2012 at 4:18pm:
will; nice old ballard, treat her special. my first love was ballard #3.
marlinguy, the pacific I saw w/cast reciever was a canoe paddle, no finish, brown patina, lots of crud and nothing in very good shape so don't think it was faked (what would be the point?), it was not for sale but to be restored. the barrel was just under reciever width and no tulip. I've never seen a #2 without a tuliped barrel, not to say they don't exist either but not common. a #2 with dst & heavy barrel to make a matching # pacific would be taking a very unusual rifle to make a common one. my guess is the gun was a factory screwup but that is just a guess.
kootne
Sounds like it might be what you guessed, a screwup. I'd love to see one either way, as I just haven't yet.
I have seen rare #2's without the tulip and extra weight barrels. One in .32 Long and another in .38 XL. Both were very early guns with low serial numbers. I always wondered why anyone would order DST on a #2, but even more confusing to see DST and extra weight barrels on a .32L or .38XL. They were always anemic calibers, and not what anyone would use for competition. I tried hard to buy both those guns for my #2 Ballard collection, but the owners knew what they had.
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pacific5
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Re: My Gallary
Reply #12 -
Nov 30
th
, 2012 at 10:11pm
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Hay as long as all the serial #'s match, what can you say, but WOW! Wish it was mine.
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marlinguy
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Re: My Gallary might sell it
Reply #13 -
Aug 18
th
, 2014 at 9:30am
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It depends on where you sell it, and if all the numbers match. If the breechblock halves serial number to the gun, it's worth a bit more, but if they don't, then it's a built up gun with a nice Johnson barrel.
The real key is how much premium the Eric Johnson 5 star barrel will add? A built up cast action Ballard with DST will probably sell for around $1,000. Not sure if the barrel will add 20%, 30%, or ????
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will_ballard
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th
, 2007
Re: My Gallary
Reply #14 -
Aug 20
th
, 2014 at 5:18pm
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No way will I take a $1000 for this you are crazy
I was thinking bottom dollar was $2750 with scope and yes all numbers match except barrel that is perfect with a perfect bore I will put it back in the safe
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