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Ziggy
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Breech seating Black
Nov 11th, 2012 at 6:23pm
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I have always heard that when loading black powder that having any air space between the powder and slug was an absolute no-no. Seems that when breech seating you would have a space. Have I gotten some bum information?
  
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westerner
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #1 - Nov 11th, 2012 at 7:36pm
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Ziggy wrote on Nov 11th, 2012 at 6:23pm:
I have always heard that when loading black powder that having any air space between the powder and slug was an absolute no-no. Seems that when breech seating you would have a space. Have I gotten some bum information?



Not true.  Find the load that gives best accuracy.  Have a friend who's best load in his 32/40 W is thirty grains 
BP.  I use forty because I dont size my brass. The bullet sits on top of the powder.   

A large airspace in any BP firearm is bad.  Like pushing a ball/bullet half way down the barrel then firing it. 


                Joe.
  

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bnice
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #2 - Nov 11th, 2012 at 8:28pm
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?
  
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westerner
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #3 - Nov 11th, 2012 at 9:17pm
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bnice wrote on Nov 11th, 2012 at 8:28pm:
?



Dont be shy. Jump right in!

     Joe. 
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #4 - Nov 11th, 2012 at 10:36pm
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Joe your reply to the poster seems to have a contradiction, or a typo in it that is a mite confusing.  At least to me. Wink
  

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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #5 - Nov 11th, 2012 at 10:59pm
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Okay, what is it?

  Joe.
  

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boats
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #6 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 6:59am
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Fixed Ammo black powder I seat the bullet on top of the powder. Breech seating black I put a cork wad on top of the powder to keep it from spilling when loading. Insert the bullet ahead of the case. There is a gap.

Not a problem with a modern steel target rifle. Old musket or shotgun something to avoid.  Every breech seated black powder round we shoot has air space.

Boats
  
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Ziggy
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #7 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 7:47am
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Thanks Boats
  
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GWarden
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #8 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 9:49am
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Ziggy
Breech seating BP works great, and with lots of work, the results will be very satisfying. Recently shot five five shot groups at 100yds with a agg. of .640". Smallest group was .435". This was in a CPA 32/40 with 20X Unertl.
bob
  

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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #9 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 10:05am
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Key for me breech seating Black Power was a absolutely clean bore shot to shot. Wiped with a damp then dry patch between shots. Gets fowled they don't want to seat properly. If clean breech seated shoots as good or better than the best smokeless loads

Boats
  
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #10 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 11:20am
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One year I used thirty five grains of black powder in my 38/55 at Butte.  Air gap in a case is okay with black powder.  Was shooting fixed. Same goes for breech seating, air space will not do any damage.  If you breech seat a bullet  3-4-5-6-7-8- inches  into bore, then fire the gun it will do damage. Most likely ring the barrel. Old thin barrel it may burst like Boats said.

DW, where are you?


               Joe. 

  

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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #11 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 11:48am
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I just shot a SxS shotgun tournament. Lot of old stuff there. Guy had a set up to measure barrel thickness for a fee.  Trading Damascus Shotguns shooters would go to him to get barrel thickness checked.

Amazing how thin some of the old shotgun barrels are. Lot of weight in the actions they took it out of barrels to get a usable gun.  I would not want to fire one with black powder and obstruction 6 or 8 inches up the barrel. Blow for sure. Breech end they are pretty thick and lot of them used with Black powder and low pressure Smokeless cartridges.

My 38/55 CPA has a modern steel barrel over 1 inch in diameter. 38/55 breech seated may have 3/16 inch air space max. Not a problem.

Boats
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #12 - Nov 12th, 2012 at 2:18pm
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urban myth - with a reasonable air space, no issues at all. I've been shooting period military Martini's with 85grains of Fg, which means air between powder and bullet.  Shot probably 1000+ rounds as such, andyes, I'm still alive, and the rifles still look pretty good - no burst barrels, no chamber rings or whatever?  After all, if W.W. Greener advocated the use of partial charges, who are we to say otherwise?
  
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #13 - Nov 17th, 2012 at 12:03am
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DW, bnice.  My post wasn't very thorough I realize that, but where is the contradiction? Maybe you guys dont agree with the air space with BP being okay?  If so, please don't be shy. I'll sit here and read and if I reply, I'll do my very best to be as polite and eloquent as I can. I promise. So help me god. May lightning strike me edad if I don't keep my promise.  

Me and my colleagues await your responses.

         Joe. 
« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2012 at 12:50am by westerner »  

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BP
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Re: Breech seating Black
Reply #14 - Nov 17th, 2012 at 4:55pm
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From the J. Stevens Arms & Tool Co Catalog No. 50 regarding the .25-21 Stevens C. F. cartridge:

"As the shell is straight inside, reduced charges with a wad on the powder can be used and accuracy maintained, thus giving in one cartridge a wide range in the ammunition, allowing the shooter to use anything from the light load with a few grains of powder and a 67-grain bullet, up to the full charge of powder with the 86-grain bullet, or the full charge of powder with the 67 or 77-grain bullet for hunting purposes, where an extremely flat trajectory with great velocity is desired.
     In loading with reduced charges, the bullet should be seated just as if the full charge was used, not pushed right down into the shell on the powder. These shells should not be crimped."

Although the above statement pertains to fixed ammunition, it does show that Stevens considered a reasonable air space to be an acceptable practice with black powder in the 44 action with what we now consider to be soft steel barrels.
« Last Edit: Nov 17th, 2012 at 5:01pm by BP »  

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