Today I have a question and I hope some of you can give me hints how to manage this:

A friend in Germany wants to buy an old German ML-rifle (probably pre-1870) in US and this rifle should be shipped to Germany.


We don't know how to proceed. Somewhere I read, one needs a gundealer in US, who has an international shipping export licence.

And such a dealer is probably authorized to pack the rifle into a parcel and ship it to a private address in Germany. The ML-rifles pre-1870 are free to own in Germany, we don't need a "rifle owner card".

Does anybody has a clue on how we could solve this problem?

               Biggi. 

Biggi,

Send me a PM with a good email address and I will connect you to an American hunter in Stuttgart that has had several muzzleloader's sent to him in the past two years. I think the only difference will be that your friend will have to pay the Zoll before they release the rifle to him.

SS

Not to take this off track but there are a lot of mis conceptions about firearms ownership in Germany. It is true that initially it is harder to get a WaffenBesitzKarte (weapons owners card) but once done limitiations are in some ways less stringent than in the US. A hunter (Green card) can have as many long guns as he desires and his options are greater than for a sport shooter (gold card). The hunter may have long guns with that have barrel lengths that here in the US require a $200 tax stamp. At least one company sells AR's with 7.5 inch barrels that some hunters like for drive hunts and for following up on wounded game. After living in Germany for over 20 years I learned that there are a lot of other misconceptions/wive's tales about guns and hunting in Germany but no point in addressing them here now.

SS

SchwarzStock wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 5:12pm:



PM sent!          Biggi. 

Chuck, thanks for your explanations.

Currently, this ML-rifle is in Montana. A guy wants to sell it to North-East-Germany, where this rifle was built in the late 1860s (probably). It should go to a private person, who makes researches on that old gun company.

So I think we need a export-gun-dealer in US, who is allowed to send to Germany. Is this BATF-paperwork also necessary for an old rifle?

And the buyer in North-East-Germany should ask his authorities, if the rifle can be send to his private address or if he needs an import-gun-dealer in Germany. He should figure out, which paperwork he needs for the import.

Thanks for your kindly information. Hhhm, maybe the Simpsons can give some additional hints. 

               Biggi.   

  I think you have a good point.  It's better to start the ball rolling and then be told "Oh, this was made before 1898 AND it's a muzzleloader...so it's not a firearm(twice over), no problemo" rather than "well, you neglected part 433 c subpart x-ray, so you are liable for....

I spoke with Simpsons, a US importer/exporter.  Firearms made prior to 1989 are classified as Antiques.   Anybody can buy and sell them.  The sticky point is when you cross national borders.

Yes, the BATF controls firearms in the US, however, once you cross the border you have to deal with other US laws, that means other US government departments.    I'll list them below, each of them has a different classification of these firearms.   You may have to deal with:
* US State Department - No license to export needed, however, must not be on excluded list.
* US Customs - Also exempt from license, however, firearm must be easily identified as pre-1989
* US Department of Commerce - this is another commodity moving across international borders.   If this firearm is not controlled, no export license is needed.

Next is shipping.   You will need to ship Air Freight Cargo your firearms to Germany.  Simpsons said Luftansa is cheapest at $450-$500.   Yes, that price is right.   The best thing about it is it's rated for a 50Kg minimum (remember my earlier post stated to ship 3-5 firearms the same time?).

I still don't know what happens on the German side when it arrives.

OK, now the water is muddy, what can Biggie and her friend do?

Option #1 (higher risk) - the rifle can be taken to a company that ships international (can't do DHL) and try to ship.   You must declare "the rifle is a pre-1989 firearm and is classified by the BATF as an Antique."   The risk is US Customs can (most likely) open the box before shipment.  If anything is incorrect, the rifle will be destroyed and no notification provided.

Option #2 (moderate risk) - a regular US FFL (not exporter) can ship for you.   Again, must be labeled like above.

Option #3 (low risk) - fly here and pick it up.  You may want to obtain US Customs form 4457 prior to heading back to Germany.

Option #4 (lowest risk) - have an exporter handle the entire process.   Simpsons is one such exporter.

Though originally from the US, I am living in Australia. I have had many antique rifles sent to me here. Either the brother or a dealer just puts them in the mail. No need for export permits or dealers to be involved. They just list them as antique rifles. There is a limit on insurance for mailed items, I think something like $2500 or there abouts. But all have tracking numbers now.

Never had a problem, all have arrived safe, in fact I have a couple passing through Aust Customs at this moment. 

The German end, I can not help with.