58gr of 3F Swiss in my 38/56 gets 1425fps +/- 8fps out of my 14" twist 32" long barrel with a 335gr Postell bullet. That will get out to 1000yd, though I've never tried it. Some of the ranges will not allow 38cal at 1000yd. I'm thinking Raton is one of these.

joeb - seeing your post (posted while I was typing), based on my 38cal data:
1425fps x 60sec/min = 85,500fpm x 12"/ft = 1,026,000 inches per minute divided by 14" twist = 73,287rpm, or about 69% of the way towards failure. Even a 12" twist would only be ~80%.

Assuming a 40cal bullet is closer to the 38cal then the 45cal bullet, it might be as high as 85% with a 12" twist, so appears the higher twist rates are fine with 38 & 40 caliber bullets. The 14" twist in my 40/65 Hepburn should be a good compromise.

Here is Whittington Centers minimum, think you will find other matches using the same table. The allow 38's but it's a very special 38 caliber thats allowed. 38 figures in parentheses = revision to 375 grs this years rule book.  Lighter bullet allowed higher velocity required.

Cal Min Bullet Wt. Min Bullet Vel. 

.38 Cal 408 (375) 1300 (1375) 
.40 Cal 408 1280 
.44 Cal 450 1240 
.45 Cal 510 1200 
.50 Cal 600 1200 

Way I am looking at it gut feeling only, 16 is well proven. 14 just a bit faster.  Foolish for me to build a 38 caliber 12 inch twist when nobody can show me a 38/12 inch that's won matches. It's just too extreme

I think the job would be easier with a 410 gr 40 caliber 14 inch twist. 15 lb rifle built right up to the rule, recoil would be minimal.   That is if someone does not want to go with proven 45/90's & bullets in excess of 500 grs.

And think if campaigning BPC you need two rifles, One for 1000 other for 200/300/600. It may be possible to do both with a switch barrel CPA if you can find a way to make the stock comb work for both.  Which is another puzzle. 

Rule book on combs is not real clear. Does it mean stick or strap on only or can you use a shotgun style adjustable comb. Fixed adjustment set it and it stays put.  Strap on's are a poor solution with a shotgun. Much better are the cut stock = 2 internal risers set with allen screws.

"(e) Add-on cheek pieces are permitted."

Any and all thoughts appreciated

Boats





Boats

I just shot in the Mid-Range BPTR match at my club (Cadillac Michigan Sportsmen’s Club) the 29th & 30th of September, the fall match is shot at 500yds & 600yds, the overall open sight winner shot a 40/70SS Inch case with bore size PP bullets (do not remember the weight of it) as fixed ammo and using 1f Swiss powder in a custom New model Winchester 1885 rifle, I think he has a 1:14 barrel. I was Rays Spotter for 2 of each three rounds at 500 & 600yds, besides him being an awesome shot I was truly impressed with PP bullets and the 40/70SS caliber round he was using. Not sure but he may have set the 500yd record for senior’s with open sights, wish I had written down the scores. I just looked at the national records on the NRA site and Ray already holds the National Senior record at 600yds open sights with a score of 97-4x for 10 shots. Sure did not realize the Quality of shooter’s I was teamed with, but D*mn can Ray shoot!
I was so Impressed with Rays performance and the 40-70SS rifle he was shooting that I sent my CPA 32-40 bench rifle action off to CPA to have a Douglas 40 caliber 1:14 twist barrel chambered in 40-70SS (on the 405W case), a left hand butt stock and small forearm fitted to it, Ray used same rifle to shoot the 1000, 900, 800yd matches at Camp Grayling MI and usually wins them with the same rifle slightly heavier load.
The third shooter in our group was RK and he shot a 35/? 2.5” long cartridge with 325gr PP bullet in an original Ken Bresien Stevens rifle, he did pretty well but had problems with the set trigger on the gun, wish I had photos of the rifle as the wood was some fantastic English Walnut.
I did just OK, but had a ball I was using a very rough rolling block in 40-65W 30” barrel, it is the first official match I have ever shot left hand, my best score open sights was 114 at 600yds for 15 shots, it sure is a fantastic sport, I cannot wait for next spring and the 200, 300 & 600yd match, it is going to be a Long Slow Winter this year.
Mike

Yes it was a 35/? 2.5" case cartridge. He did pretty well for having constant problems with the set trigger. Hard to shoot accurately when you have no idea if rifle/firearm is going to fire when trigger is pulled.
Mike

Do not remember 35 Winchester, it was a old timer, could not find anything like it in COTW, hope to have contact with one of them in a week or so, will find out for certain.
Mike

Yes I did play with the metal tops you pushed down on a center spiral shaft to make it spin and yes the diameter did make a difference, but so did making it spin faster allow it to stay upright longer.

I watched the Gentleman I spotted for a couple weeks ago Ray, use a 40-70SS with PP bullets shoot a 96-98, 8 or 9x at 500yds, has your 45/70 performed that well.

I believe what ever factor sets your mind at ease and you trust, rifle/caliber/bullet/load allows you to score better, no matter what discipline you are shooting.

Mike



MikeT wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 8:55pm:

I agree boats, one shooter in August allowed me shoot his 45-90 in a full weight sharps rifle, I think he said the bullet was 550gr and a full load of 1f Swiss, well to put simply if it was the required caliber/ load and rifle I would not have considered getting involved in BPTR shooting, after three shots I was hurting, understand I was shooting a right hand rifle left hand.
I shot my Remington 700 375 H&H for years with 270gr bullets using full power loads, 2700fps and it did not bother me to shoot 40-50 rounds from the bench position, rifle weighs 10lbs 9oz with scope. So I do know about recoil as related to large caliber rifles, I would much rather shoot it than the 45-90 I fired any day of the week.

Mike


boats wrote on Oct 11^th, 2012 at 9:59pm: