butt stock

action top

Mike,
Nice looking Sharps. Somebody has drilled and tapped the top of the breechblock for a screw that puts downward pressure on the striker to keep the trigger pull more consistant. Al Story should have the top tang.  Try Lozito for his Zischang double sets.  I think he sells them for $500. He would probably be a good choice for the install as well. Interesting caliber choice.  Check it for European proofs when you get it.  Bob

Hello Michael,

A very interesting Borchardt. The calibre was a very popular German target round. The ammo is still made in Europe but is likely to be Berdan primed, a real PITA, but brass is easily formed from US made 30/30 cases without any lathe work needed on them. The action appears to be cut for the original Sharps DST's rather than the Zischang version. The screw on the firing pin housing at the rear of the breechblock is for adjusting the DEPTH of the sear engagement in the firing pin. The screw goes right through the firing pin and contacts the upper side of the sear lever. This modification wasn't introduced until the mid 1920's when it first appeared in an edition of the American Rifleman in an article by the inventor an Al Mercante. The screw visible is removed and beneath it there is a small  dia. screw vertically through the firing pin, that is the adjusting screw.

The butt stock looks like an original 'Long Range' rifle version, but I believe that the butt plate is a later addition. There appears to be a stamp on the receiver ring, possibly a proof mark if this rifle was altered in Europe. A clearer picture would help and would others of any barrel markings. Sharps only chambered the Borchardt rifle for US calibre ammunition so it is likely to have been rebarreled, possibly in the late 1920's or thirties.

Very few of these rifles ever made it to Europe, I've only ever seen one action in Britain in 50+ years although I have heard of one or two others.

You certainly appear to have a very nice rifle indeed. I'd certainly recommend you tried out a few boxes of ammo in it before making any changes.

Harry

The barrel is marked Krupp Fluid Steel. A fellow collector who has several  Zischang's said that  Zischang had imported several Krupp barrels and install them on various guns so this may be his work. If it is I'm sure he put his roll stamp under the forearm on the barrel. Have to wait and see. It looks like the original Sharps forend also. Losito is going to install his version of the  Zischang double set trigger for me.
I think with just a very light cleaning the wood will look really nice. And the seller said the bore is like new. Hopefully it shots as nice as it looks.
Mike

Hello Mike,
If the original DST's are available I would recommend you try and obtain them. According to Sellers book they were individually hand fitted so couldn't be fitted to another Borchardt without a lot of work. You could point that fact out to the present owner of the Sharps DST's, you would also need the special trigger bar which has an additional hole in it for the knock off.

I'm rather surprised to hear that Zischang bought barrels from Krupp, unless he bought bored and reamed blanks and rifled them himself. His reputation as a barrel maker was every bit as good as Harry Pope's. Like Pope he had also designed his own form of rifling.

Good luck with the DST's

Harry

Hello Mike.

Looking again at your action pictures it could quite possibly be a Zischang modified action. Usually a Borchardt action with an additional hole in front of the trigger pin hole indicated that the action was cut for the Borchardt designed DST's, however in all the pictures I have accumulated over the years the only ones I have where the lower tang on the action has been cut away was on Zischang modified actions. The presence of a screw in one of the holes was a Zischang signature. The fact that the rifle is chambered for a metric calibre and has a Krupp Barrel or barrel blank and the addition of the engraving which sounds more European than American style, points to a European gunsmith as having worked on it.

I would very much appreciate a good side view of the rounded edges on the upperside of the rear of the action as Zischang streamlined these curves on the top and underneath. The underside it looks like Zischangs work. You may be lucky, and have an original Zischang modified Borchardt. 

I agree with you, if the barrel comes off then the action is far less likely to get damaged in transit or attract undue attention from any of the Postal Services or from people with felonious intent. In these days of financial hardship anything that saves a few dollars is worth persuing. 

Finally are there any markings on the underside of the barrel or under the buttplate? 

Regards,

Harry

Good morning  Mike,

Was the Lever pin screw frozen in place? It isn't necessary to remove it to strip the action down, less than one complete turn of the locking screw will align the cut out on it's edge with the lever pin head which can simply be pushed out. However, if your uncertain always let someone who is used to that action do it. I'm surprised it's stuck inless the thread is rusted in place. Even if that has happened it's an easy job to drill out the screw and retap the thread. It's only a few minutes work to make or adapt an existing screw
to fit.

I'm always a little wary about what gunwriters put onto paper if they are not machinists. Certainly some milling was carried out on the action but most of the cutting was done by the use of vertical shaping machines which cut the breechblock mortice and squared off the sides and corners of the cut behind the breechblock mortice and many other operations. Sharps didn't spend a lot on the internal finishing of metal parts, time was money. Many people have mentioned to me just how roughly their Borchardts were machined, as long as the outside looked O/K that was it as far as the manufacturer was concerned. By examining actual actions or even perusing decent photographs and looking at the tool marks it is relativly easy to tell what type of machine was used to make any particular machining cut. Vertical shaping machines are very rare today I haven't seen one in a factory in over 35 years.

It does look like the east coast is in for some wet times over the next few days. I hope Joe can get his customers goods to an upper floor and keep them dry.

Be aware that the lower tang curve of the DST's may not fit your existing stock. 

Let's have some pictures as soon as you get it back please.

Harry

My two cents worth---the rear of the action is tapered in the Zischang style. Looks like his work.

A friend sent me this link to a Ballard with a Krupp Fluid Steel barrel Eissen, and it is a Zischang, he also owned a Borchardt barreled the same as mine, 32 inch long, full octagon in 32-40. This may be a 32-40 as I have no did a chamber cast yet. Nice to hear all of the good info as it definitely supports that this may well be Zishangs work. Joseph Lozito's work is almost as nice so when completed it should be really a nice rifle.
Thanks to all for the great input.
Here is the link:
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Harry, Joseph has several sets of these already built just awaiting an action. I think the 500.00 is a bargain. He does exceptional work. I'm still trying to figure out if I should refinish the action as it is a nice patina now but with a freckling of very small minute rust pits, and they are there but barely noticable. if it were a complete original Zischang I would leave it alone but since it gets new triggers and upper tang, and a new stock I may just refinish the action. I would leave the barrel as is it's at about a bit over 90% decent blue. If I had requested he would have just sent out the triggers to me. I feel better having Joseph set it up correctly.
Mike

Harry, I never BUFF, I use a surface plate when at all possible, high quality files, high grade wet and dry sand paper. And I always watch the lines to ensure that everyting looks correct. I may just leave it as is. I'll have to wait and see what Joseph says, as he needs to get it all together and functional first. That is the #1 issue. 
Mike

Joseph updated me and said that it is 100% fro sure a Zischang rifle. And the workmanship is impeccable. The breech block is scalloped Creedmore style. I,m having Joseph refinish it as he needs to take a small cut on each side of the trigger slot for the new triggers and it will be easier if the action is annealed first. Then Joseph will color case it for me. His colors come out at about 100 % of looking original and his price is really good. My wood is on its way to CPA for profiling so I'm making progress.
Mike

Hello Mike,

Thanks for the updates, can't wait to see the pictures of the finished item.   

Harry

Hello Mike,
I've just got back from a few days in France and Belgium visiting the WW1 Battlefields and Cemetries. I've been promising myself for years I would go and last weekend on a sudden whim I packed the car and drove to Dover on the south coast of England and took the ferry to France. I spent three days just visiting the places where so many young men died and the places where some of them remain. There are tens of thousands of British Troops with no known grave who's remains still lie in Flanders Fields and elsewhere. I'm very glad I went to pay my respects, but the overwhelming feeling I came away with was, what a tragic waste of so many hundreds of thousands of young mens lives. It's hard to try and comprehend the numbers.

The Borchardt isn't proceeding anywhere near as fast as I would like.    Last winters cold induced Arthritis in my hands did not go away this spring as it has in the past and I am very wary about operating machine tools without having full control of both hands. I'm doing dribs and drabs but I really need more control of my fingers. Maybe next spring will be warmer and I get back to working more often.

Harry

mwhite49 wrote on Nov 15^th, 2012 at 10:36am:


Hello Mike,

That's interesting, I'll have to check it out with the local Horse Tack shop. It's something I haven't heard of, but if it works it's worth a try. I take Cod Liver Oil capsules every day and also Glucosamine Sulphate tablets, but they don't seem to work so well. Perhaps I need some WD40 on these 69 year old fingers. lol.

Harry.

Hello Mike,
Does DMSO have a particular trade name or is it simply an abbreviation of four longer words? 

The taste of Garlic doesn't bother me a bit, I eat the bulbs raw and put it into many of my meals. It doesn't pay to eat it before going out on a hot date though. lol. Thanks for the tips on application.

Harry

It's sounding better by the day Mike, i'm looking forward to seeing the pictures. I'm not surprised that some parts needed replacing, most of us would need spare parts if we were the age of that rifle. 

Harry

I wish I had some more news but not yet. I'm busy getting ready for my Colorado project. Joseph should have it just about finished as far as what he can do until he gets the stock from Gail at CPA. Then he will inlet and dress the wood down to an even wood to metal fit. Joseph is a perfectionist so I can't wait to see it. 
As soon as he sends me some pictures I will post them.
Mike

I almost want to send it out and have the Sharps light engraving that was standard on the engraved Borchardts done up but not sure yet. Plenty of time still for that if I decided to go that way.
mike

I spoke with Gail yesterday and paid for my stock profiling. She will have it finished today or Saturday at the latest and then ship it off to Joseph. She also made a flat round palm rest out of the same Turkish blank for me. This should turn out to be a very nice rifle.

+2 on the pictures

The other side.

Mike that's not your Borchardt. Even though it is real pretty. FITZ.

A very nice looking stock, the grain in the pistol grip is running nice and 'square on' for fitting to the back of the action. No pics from Joe?

Harry

Hello Mike,
Glad to see you haven't forgotten us. lol. You can differentiate between a Borchardt constructed for Long Range  usage from all other Borchardts. The rifle as built by Sharps was too heavy to make the weight requirement for Creedmoor Shooting and so several weight reducing measures had to be taken. 

Excess weight was removed by additional machining to the action body, the stock bolt and the breechblock.

The breechblock had a 'scallop' of metal as you call it removed from the underside of the firing pin housing behind the breechblock. The stock bolt was drilled through internally for its full length, effectively making it a tube with a thread on one end and a slotted head on the other. The action body had the side panels housings cut out, the top of the receiver ring was sculpted, as was the underside at the front of the action. Viewing the action from the front the usual Borchardt would have a hole centrally placed below the barrel with a rectangular notch cut on the left hand side. Most of this metal was removed leaving just a thin outer shell of metal. Finally most of the metal web between the upper and lower tangs was removed leaving just a spigot for the stock bolt to screw into. The same alterations were made on the Mid Range Borchards.

Unless your action has all these refinements, it was not a totally original LR Rifle. (these were usually built to order only) It could well have been made up from parts obtained from Schuster, Hartley and Graham the NY based International Arms Company who bought what was left from the Sharps Co., when it closed including cases of Borchardts and spare parts for the both the Borchardt and the 1874 Model Sharps, they were still selling these rifles by the case and the spares some 25 yeaqrs after the Sharps Factory closed it's doors. Given that Zischang's gunsmiths shop in NY it is likely that S,H&G were the source of his supply of rifles and components.

Continued below. 

Harry

Hey Mike,
Many of us are anxiously waiting to see the outcome of this Zischang Borchardt.  Almost a year has gone by since we last heard news of this.  Any progress to report?  Bob

any more progress? anxious to see it....Don

Thanks go to all of you for showing me to wait, and wait some more if needed. Joseph is a bit slow but his workmanship is excellent. His triggers are almost exact copies of the Zischang ones.

Not yet. As soon as I hear anything I will let you know.
Mike