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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R (Read 37002 times)
mwhite49
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Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Oct 8th, 2012 at 1:49pm
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Here are some pictures of my new Borchardt. As soon as I get it I will take some decent pictures of it and post them. Original Sharps butt stock and butt plate. Double set triggers will be going back into this one.
Mike
  
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mwhite49
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #1 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 1:50pm
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butt stock
  
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mwhite49
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #2 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 1:51pm
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commercial action
  
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mwhite49
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #3 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 1:51pm
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action top
  
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John Boy
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #4 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 4:23pm
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Mike, clean looking Sharpes especially the wood - about 22,500 made.
Is the rifle complete with the DST assembly or do you have to find one?

Also, is the barrel original?  I don't believe the Borchardt was made in metric calibers - only`45 and 50's
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #5 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 5:19pm
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Mike,
Nice looking Sharps. Somebody has drilled and tapped the top of the breechblock for a screw that puts downward pressure on the striker to keep the trigger pull more consistant. Al Story should have the top tang.  Try Lozito for his Zischang double sets.  I think he sells them for $500. He would probably be a good choice for the install as well. Interesting caliber choice.  Check it for European proofs when you get it.  Bob
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #6 - Oct 9th, 2012 at 2:26am
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About 30 years ago I use to shoot with a guy named Frank Payne who lived in Southern California, Frank had a nice Sharps Borchardt in 8.15X46R, I can't really tell if it's the same gun, but I think Frank's rifle had originally been a Zischang.

Bob
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #7 - Oct 9th, 2012 at 4:14am
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Hello Michael,

A very interesting Borchardt. The calibre was a very popular German target round. The ammo is still made in Europe but is likely to be Berdan primed, a real PITA, but brass is easily formed from US made 30/30 cases without any lathe work needed on them. The action appears to be cut for the original Sharps DST's rather than the Zischang version. The screw on the firing pin housing at the rear of the breechblock is for adjusting the DEPTH of the sear engagement in the firing pin. The screw goes right through the firing pin and contacts the upper side of the sear lever. This modification wasn't introduced until the mid 1920's when it first appeared in an edition of the American Rifleman in an article by the inventor an Al Mercante. The screw visible is removed and beneath it there is a small  dia. screw vertically through the firing pin, that is the adjusting screw.

The butt stock looks like an original 'Long Range' rifle version, but I believe that the butt plate is a later addition. There appears to be a stamp on the receiver ring, possibly a proof mark if this rifle was altered in Europe. A clearer picture would help and would others of any barrel markings. Sharps only chambered the Borchardt rifle for US calibre ammunition so it is likely to have been rebarreled, possibly in the late 1920's or thirties.

Very few of these rifles ever made it to Europe, I've only ever seen one action in Britain in 50+ years although I have heard of one or two others.

You certainly appear to have a very nice rifle indeed. I'd certainly recommend you tried out a few boxes of ammo in it before making any changes.

Harry
  
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Fred Boulton
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #8 - Oct 9th, 2012 at 6:46am
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RWS still make the cases and they are Boxer primed, not Berdan. Alternatively, buy a set of dies from CH and re-form 30-30 brass. It may work well with 32-40 bullets, but most rifles in this calibre prefer the original "stop-ring" bullet for which moulds are available. The stop ring design allows you to re-load without using dies after the first fire forming.
Fred
  
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mwhite49
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #9 - Oct 9th, 2012 at 8:26am
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The barrel is marked Krupp Fluid Steel. A fellow collector who has several  Zischang's said that  Zischang had imported several Krupp barrels and install them on various guns so this may be his work. If it is I'm sure he put his roll stamp under the forearm on the barrel. Have to wait and see. It looks like the original Sharps forend also. Losito is going to install his version of the  Zischang double set trigger for me.
I think with just a very light cleaning the wood will look really nice. And the seller said the bore is like new. Hopefully it shots as nice as it looks.
Mike





  
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mwhite49
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #10 - Oct 9th, 2012 at 8:44am
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Thanks guys for all of the input. I think I have a lead on where the original DST assembly is too. If that person has it I just hope they are willing to part with it. I also purchased another rifle in the same caliber, an AYDT that is a barreled action only missing the set trigger assembly on it too. More projects. I think this is my 6th rifle in 8.15X46R now. Once you get one they grow on you. 
Mike
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #11 - Oct 9th, 2012 at 11:50am
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Hello Mike,
If the original DST's are available I would recommend you try and obtain them. According to Sellers book they were individually hand fitted so couldn't be fitted to another Borchardt without a lot of work. You could point that fact out to the present owner of the Sharps DST's, you would also need the special trigger bar which has an additional hole in it for the knock off.

I'm rather surprised to hear that Zischang bought barrels from Krupp, unless he bought bored and reamed blanks and rifled them himself. His reputation as a barrel maker was every bit as good as Harry Pope's. Like Pope he had also designed his own form of rifling.

Good luck with the DST's

Harry
  
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mwhite49
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #12 - Oct 23rd, 2012 at 12:39pm
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Harry, no original triggers. Joseph Lozito will do the work in fitting a double set for me. He is asking 500.00 for the triggers and not sure yet for the fitting. I'm contemplating pulling the barrel off and just sending him the action and butt stock and not the whole deal. Cheaper on the mail fee's that way too plus a lot smaller box. I just hope the barre is not on there really tight. 
I got the rifle in the mail and it is really nice. I will take some detailed pictures and post them here soon. I also got a great surprise. I was also bidding on an old Aydt rifle that looked to be a nice condition plain rifle. The pictures did not show that is is fully engraved with a Cherub holding a target on the right side. Left side is just decorative vines, leafs and scroll. Even the trigger plate assembly is engraved, color case and bluing is at about 80-90% with a wind age adjustable front sight. I have a butt stock profiled for it and now I need to finish that and pick up a rear sight for it. 
Mike
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #13 - Oct 28th, 2012 at 2:22pm
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Hello Mike.

Looking again at your action pictures it could quite possibly be a Zischang modified action. Usually a Borchardt action with an additional hole in front of the trigger pin hole indicated that the action was cut for the Borchardt designed DST's, however in all the pictures I have accumulated over the years the only ones I have where the lower tang on the action has been cut away was on Zischang modified actions. The presence of a screw in one of the holes was a Zischang signature. The fact that the rifle is chambered for a metric calibre and has a Krupp Barrel or barrel blank and the addition of the engraving which sounds more European than American style, points to a European gunsmith as having worked on it.

I would very much appreciate a good side view of the rounded edges on the upperside of the rear of the action as Zischang streamlined these curves on the top and underneath. The underside it looks like Zischangs work. You may be lucky, and have an original Zischang modified Borchardt. 

I agree with you, if the barrel comes off then the action is far less likely to get damaged in transit or attract undue attention from any of the Postal Services or from people with felonious intent. In these days of financial hardship anything that saves a few dollars is worth persuing. 

Finally are there any markings on the underside of the barrel or under the buttplate? 

Regards,

Harry
« Last Edit: Oct 28th, 2012 at 7:39pm by »  
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mwhite49
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Re: Borchardt rifle in 8.15x46R
Reply #14 - Oct 29th, 2012 at 10:57pm
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Hi Harry. well the Ham handled fiend here got the screw for the lever pivot stuck, so I gave up and sent the whole thing to Joseph who I spoke with earlier today and is going to go under water if it gets bad. He is about a mile from the water and when I asked well what elevation above the water are you, he said probably 2ft if that. My heart goes out to all of the Back East folks. Been through one of these years ago in Brunswick Maine and they said we got it light. I would have hated to see a heavy one such as this.
The Sharps. In Frank Sellers book he mentioned that he thought all Borchardts were milled out on the underside.
The sides of the action are not marked at all. And Joseph will really fit the triggers as they should be and the upper tang. He does nice work.
Mike
  
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