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SSShooter
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Early Ballistics Work
Oct 7th, 2012 at 7:43am
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Someone posted this on the Shiloh Forum and thought folks here might also find it interesting.
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #1 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 6:31pm
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That is a good primer article, If you don't own a copy of the book you should definitely get one.

I think it is still available from Wolfe Pub, the one they sell has Pope's margin notes.

Here are my copies two firsts and the reprint.

  

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JLouis
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #2 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 11:20pm
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Great information but the reading can get awfully dry. Reading Mann's book is what prompted my extensive testing, a man who continually lived outside of the box in search of the X error and way ahead of the times.

J.Louis
  

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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #3 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 11:42pm
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Thanks, SS, good read.      ...MIKE...
  
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JLouis
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #4 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 11:54pm
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Mike click on the Articles Index and you will find some very interesting reading. Here are a couple of my favorites on primers. There are those that think primers don't make a differance and they can make all the differance in the world. The high speed camera work catching the Brisance really helps tell the tale. When you get to the small rifle primers I think you will be amazed by the Rem 7 1/2 Brisance compared to the rest and they are far from being mild and a surprise to those who use them after I shared this with them.

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gunlaker
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #5 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 12:42am
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I wasn't aware that it was still in print. I bought a digital copy a couple of years ago from Buffalo Arms.  A printed copy would be nice.

Chris.
  
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #6 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 9:13am
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Google digitized the book several years ago.  I downloaded the pdf file and have it on my computer.  I've read it at least twice and as J Louis said ... it is quite dry.  Dr Mann took a given topic and tested it 20 ways from Sunday - great information though
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In addition, there are many other BPCR books available on Google, by ... Mordecai - Noble & Abel - Metford, etc and including the testing of powders at Aberdeen and a couple of other arsenals 

Here's a book I bought because the information is concise and excellent ... The Art of Shooting with the Rifle by H. St. John Halford and an Illustrated Treatise on the Art of Shooting by Charles Lancaster
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #7 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 11:37am
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Am I the only one that found the book one "I couldn't put down"?

I learned a lot from it and applied his Mann bullet in two of my rifles. 

He also worked with the "state of the art" guy's. To bad they didn't have email back then. The book could have had a lot more info in it.

Frank
  

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boats
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #8 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 11:40am
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Dr Mann's book is worth reading. Slow and at times tedious, the items covered and conclusions are essential to understanding how bullets perform. Might read some obscure part never think about it for years. Then it becomes relevant to a problem you are having or result that could not be explained without the background from "The bullets flight"

Boats
  
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JLouis
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #9 - Oct 8th, 2012 at 12:05pm
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Frank all though the book is dry at times, I have read it front cover to back cover several times and still reference it often. It is at a friends right now so he can also enjoy what Mann accomplished and has to share.

J.Louis
  

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gunlaker
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #10 - Oct 9th, 2012 at 11:24am
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It is definitely a useful and interesting book.  I've had the digital copy for a little while and just purchased a printed copy with Pope's annotations on ebay last night.

Chris.
  
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #11 - Oct 10th, 2012 at 9:48am
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I've read these articles, and have some problems.
There are no conclusions about specific primers.
Pressure is measured with an Oehler 43 b.l., no longer made. The 43 pressure measurement has been criticized, my guess it that it just isn't accurate.
And, the statistics don't work. See the statistics article on the site, note the contradictions.
G. Salazar has writ a lot that I like and respect-this and some other quantification stuff is suspect.
joe b. 

JLouis wrote on Oct 7th, 2012 at 11:54pm:
Mike click on the Articles Index and you will find some very interesting reading. Here are a couple of my favorites on primers. There are those that think primers don't make a differance and they can make all the differance in the world. The high speed camera work catching the Brisance really helps tell the tale. When you get to the small rifle primers I think you will be amazed by the Rem 7 1/2 Brisance compared to the rest and they are far from being mild and a surprise to those who use them after I shared this with them.

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joeb33050
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #12 - Oct 10th, 2012 at 9:54am
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I've had and read Mann's book for years. I tried to synopsize/categorize/workbookize the tests and failed miserably. Some of it just doesn't make sense, what tests were done when with what gun and load/bullet is not clear. What's that short barrel no barrel bullet expansion about?
Can someone show me an example of test/s and conclusions that makes sense?
joe b.
boats wrote on Oct 8th, 2012 at 11:40am:
Dr Mann's book is worth reading. Slow and at times tedious, the items covered and conclusions are essential to understanding how bullets perform. Might read some obscure part never think about it for years. Then it becomes relevant to a problem you are having or result that could not be explained without the background from "The bullets flight"

Boats

  
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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #13 - Oct 10th, 2012 at 11:19am
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What's that short barrel no barrel bullet expansion about?
Can someone show me an example of test/s and conclusions that makes sense?


This is the one thing out of the book that I had a hard time with, too. his loads for it didn't generate that much pressure, compared to todays pressures. So, it's been a mystery to me, also.

A good area for a guy named Joeb to experiment in. Smiley

Frank
  

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Re: Early Ballistics Work
Reply #14 - Oct 10th, 2012 at 12:46pm
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It IS indeed basic research.

The short-bbl test shows simply that the base bullet starts moving and hence expanding before the front of the bullet.
  

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