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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn (Read 14528 times)
vol717
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Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Oct 5th, 2012 at 8:20am
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I have been offered a Remington Hepburn in .30-40 Krag.  It has a Remington-marked barrel, 30 inches long with a bubble level front sight.  The top of the barrel is roll marked with "Remington Arms, Ilion N.Y. USA"   The caliber is marked on the underside with a hand stamp simply "30.40 ".  As roll marking is impossible to do without the machine and dies, I know that the barrel is legitimate.  But an acquaintance told me that all smokeless powder Hepburns were blued and this action has traces of color casehardening on it.   How, other than the finish, can I identify this action as smokeless powder?  The serial number is about 7500, which would be late in the Hepburn production history, I have been told.  This rifle has a shotgun butt and very nice wood with checkering.   The barrel only has a front sight mounted. There is no provision for a rear sight on the barrel.  The rifle does not have a rear sight, but there are filled holes on the heel of the stock where a back position sight was mounted at one time.  I have a line on a Lyman tang sight that came off a Hepburn so I will be able to shoot the gun should I acquire it.   The price is pretty high, but I am willing to pay it if I can determine that this is a smokeless powder Hepburn.   What should I look for on the action to determine that?   I can't post photos now, but I will do that here once I acquire the rifle.   

Also, if smokeless powder Hepburns are as rare as I have been lead to believe, what is a fair price to pay for this gun?  The bluing on the barrel and the wood finish are in very high condition. The action has some pitting on the top and is a mixture of brown with some casehardening in places.  The bore is perfect.  It  seems to me that the gun may have been rebarreled by Remington at some point. 

Thanks.

Allan
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #1 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 10:47am
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Sounds like a nice rifle but will someone knowledgeable reply to this? It is my impression that they quit making Hepburn's before smokeless powder became common and don't think Remington ever rebarreled or rechambered one for smokeless calibers. It is a stout action and suitable for proper smokeless loads. If the action is blued, it is a rework. Someone can correct me.
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #2 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 11:17am
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One basic thing you can do is take off the forearm and see if the barrel has a matching serial number. This will at least tell you that the frame was originally configured for a smokeless powder cartridge.

John Gross
  
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #3 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 11:19am
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vol717
Maybe I'm too cynical but have you checked to see if that barrel has been re-lined? That's not necessarily a bad thing but if you intend to shoot it very much, the barrel re-line job needs to be well executed.
  

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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #4 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 12:07pm
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You might want to look at J. J. Grant's book Single-Shot Rifles. 

Grant quotes from the Remington catalog that "The continued demand for our single-shot No. 3 rifle for high-power ammunition has induced us to adapt this celebrated rifle to the high pressure cartridges by substituting the improved breechblock, using the necessary small firing pin and special Ordinance steel barrel."

Grant goes on to say that the rifle was made with round ordinance steel barrels, with a rifle butt plate, case-hardened frame and mountings, open hunting sights, and checkered pistol-grip walnut stock. Barrel lengths were 26" (standard), 28" , and 30 inches. Available cartridges were 30/30, 30/40, 32 Special HP, 32/40 HP, 38/55 HP, 38/72. 
Weight: 8 lbs, Price: $20

Extras: Double-set triggers to order $3.50, Shotgun butt to order $2.00

  

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vol717
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #5 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 12:28pm
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From the quote from Grant's book, this sounds like the rifle I'm looking at.  The barrel is round, by the way.  I'll check under the fore end for the serial number match.   The barrel has definitely not been relined.  I believe it is a legitimate correct gun in all ways.  The action has not been blued. There are traces of CC.   The Lyman tang sight that I'm buying separately came off a Hepburn.  There is no number on this sight.   

Would anyone care to take a guess on value?
  
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #6 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 12:46pm
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The Lyman tang sight for the Hepburn chambered for 30/40 should have an R code stamped into the underside of the sight base.

As for price, your guess is as good as mine.    Wink
  

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vol717
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #7 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 7:47pm
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I bought the rifle today.  The barrel does have a serial number under the fore end that matches the number on the lower tang.  This gun is number 9844, a pretty late gun in the production, I hear.  The former owner told me that it was used in competition at Seagirt.  I hope I spelled it right. I have a Lyman sight coming that came off a Hepburn.  We even measured the distance between the screws and they are consistent.   Below is a full-length photo and a link to an album with 19 photos.   Feel free to provide input.  Facts are especially appreciated, and opinion and rumor make good conversation.   

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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #8 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 8:29pm
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That is a very nice rifle and I enjoyed looking at your photobucket photos.

J.Louis
  

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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #9 - Oct 5th, 2012 at 8:54pm
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vol717,

Nice rifle! 

One thing that surprised me is the buttplate as it looks like a standard Rem double-barrel shotgun buttplate. The serial number, barrel address and ebony insert in the forearm tip do point to a late production rifle.

Checkering on both the wrist and forearm point to a higher than standard grade rifle, as does the Rem windage front sight with spirit level along with the lack of a rear barrel sight dovetail. I'm thinking it would have likely had a Rem factory midrange vernier tang sight at one time. 

Hope you enjoy the old gal!

  

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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #10 - Oct 6th, 2012 at 9:52am
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Very nice rifle. I was obviously incorrect. Never heard of an origional Hepburn in smokeless calibers. Thanks for putting me straight. Learned something. Sounds like firing pin diameter might tell the story. 
Chuck
  
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #11 - Oct 6th, 2012 at 8:34pm
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Here is another Hepburn, in 32-40. It is a late made one, so the rounds would of been smokless by then?? If that is the case, did they change the twist or anything to suite the smokeless rounds.

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vol717
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #12 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 3:47am
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I was told on another site that this is  a Hi-Power model, apparently only available in .30-40 Krag, and pretty rare indeed.
  
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #13 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 9:31am
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I would suggest that you contact Dick Binger,  he is a major Remington collector and exhibitor, and an acknowledged authority on the Remington rifles.  Dick is an ASSRA member and invariable helpful to members.

HE advertises regularly in the ASSRA Journal

I sent you a PM
  

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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #14 - Oct 7th, 2012 at 6:17pm
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The one thing that stands out on that Hepburn is the need for you to trade me that stock for my similar stock with crescent buttplate. Wink
Very nice rifle. Per Grant's book, you will want to check that the firing pin is, indeed, the smaller one with the matching hole for the high pressure loads if you are going to be shooting anything above 1500fps, or so. If you've not taken a Hepburn apart, they are one of the more simple designs to take apart and put back together. Looking forward to getting my Hepburn in 40-65 finished (being engraved and case-hardened and a shotgun buttplate stock) for the coming silhouette/mid-range target season.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #15 - Oct 10th, 2012 at 12:27pm
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So, if we have two different firing pin tip diameters for the Hepburn, an early one initially designed and used with black powder, and a later revised one for smokeless, just what are the two different diameters so we can actually distinguish between the standard action and the high-power?

And are these two different firing pin tip diameters also match with those used in the black powder and the revised high-power rolling block actions?

  

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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #16 - Oct 10th, 2012 at 12:35pm
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Stunning Hepburn! A very rare and beautiful gun, and a great addition to any single shot collection!
  

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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #17 - Oct 13th, 2012 at 4:40am
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I was referred to Tom Rowe from another site, and it turns out we don't live that far apart.  I visited Tom this week and took the rifle along.   He verified that my rifle is a rare variety known as a High Power, available in several smokeless powder calibers.  However, Tom has only found two of these rifles to date, one of which is mine, and both in .30-40.  My rifle has two special order features: shotgun butt, a $2.00 upgrade, and a checkered fore end.  Tom estimates that only about 25 High Powers were built.  Tom is writing a book on Hepburns and my rifle will be featured in his book.    I bought a correct rear sight taken from another Hepburn and I'll be shooting the rifle as soon as the sight arrives.  I'm only going to use lead bullets at this juncture, although the ordnance steel barrel was designed for jacketed bullets.   I really fell into a nice find on this rifle.
  
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #18 - Oct 13th, 2012 at 8:54am
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Indeed. Congratulations. Keep us posted on how it shoots. You will want to slug the barrel so you know what bullets to use for best accuracy.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #19 - Oct 13th, 2012 at 7:18pm
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Outstanding news and one could only imagine the conversations you had while visiting Tom, another special event included into the rifle purchase.

J.Louis
  

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Re: Identifying a Smokeless Powder Hepburn
Reply #20 - Oct 14th, 2012 at 1:02pm
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CRAP! I don't even like Hepburns and fell in love with yours from the 1st picture you posted. Like Shotgun Butt, Pistol Grip rifles and especially in 30-40 Krag. Those were in my mind the cream of the crop rifles in the early 1900s. Wishing you the best in your acquisition. keep us posted. Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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