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hickstick_10
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heel sights for back position
Sep 29th, 2012 at 11:24pm
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I been fighting the urge to get a pedersoli gibbs, and outfitting it with a heel sight for the back position.  I use a soule sight for my shiloh and tried a bit of back shooting with it, but I would really like to try out a heel sight.  Partly out of curiousity, and partly so I can stretch out a little more for the back position.  As long as I dont shoot off my toes that is!!!

So my questions are:
Who makes them?
How are they fitted to the stock?
What are your opinions on them?

Thanks very much
Mike
  
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Singleshotlover
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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #1 - Sep 29th, 2012 at 11:42pm
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Not to make fun of you but I'm 66 and if I ever got in that position they would probably cross my hands over my chest and cover me with flowers. And probably use a forklift to get the body off the ground. Good luck on your search. Some of the english shooters were fond of using that style of shooting. You may just try google and see what pops up. Frank
  

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hickstick_10
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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #2 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 12:52am
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I've tried the google and research press forums, but havent turned up much of use.  I will try the shiloh forums, but have lurked that site for a couple years through most of there old pages, and came up with zip.

  
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harry_eales
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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #3 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 3:38am
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hickstick_10 wrote on Sep 29th, 2012 at 11:24pm:
I been fighting the urge to get a pedersoli gibbs, and outfitting it with a heel sight for the back position.  I use a soule sight for my shiloh and tried a bit of back shooting with it, but I would really like to try out a heel sight.  Partly out of curiousity, and partly so I can stretch out a little more for the back position.  As long as I dont shoot off my toes that is!!!

So my questions are:
Who makes them?
How are they fitted to the stock?
What are your opinions on them?

Thanks very much
Mike


Hello Mike,

As far as I am aware no one is making sight bases for heel mounts although you may persuade a gunsmith to make one for you.

Unlike the tang sights which are fairly thin in depth, the heel sight base is deeper because it contains the spring mechanism and the deeper inletting into the wood gives greater strength so the site base is not knocked out of true. They are usually held in place by a woodscrew fore and aft. Ideally the the tang and heel sights should both be mounted at exactly the same height above the bore, this enables the same sight settings to be used irrespective of where  it is mounted.

Some folks like them, some don't. If cross sticks are allowed in a competition, most will go for that option.
The only way you will find out if they suit your style is to try them out. 

I  have pics of the Sharps heel sight on my other computer but the hard drive isn't working any more. Sorry.

Harry
  
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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #4 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 4:18pm
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Call gunsmith Lee Shaver in Missouri.  If there is one out there, he would probably know or could make you one.  He shoots a lot of muzzle loader matches both here and overseas.  He also makes a nice looking LR muzzleloader.  Bob
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #5 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 8:52pm
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FWIW:  when Steve Durren built the  Earle/Wesson ASSRA Single Shot Classic raffle gun a few years back he equipped it with a heel sight base that would use the same LR sight as the normal tang base.  you could switch it back and forth by simply removing the screw and moving the sight staff and the screw to the other base.

Contact him, he might have the information you need
  

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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #6 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 9:30pm
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You dont need a heel mounted rear sight to use the back position.  There were several back positions. One required one arm around the back of the neck to hold the butt of the rifle. This puts your cheek on the stock.  I've seen pictures of a soldier shooting the Krag rifle in the back position. I tried it when I was in my early thirty's. Couldnt get steady or comfortable. 

Good luck and have fun.   Wink

         Joe.
  

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hickstick_10
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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #7 - Sep 30th, 2012 at 11:54pm
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westerner wrote on Sep 30th, 2012 at 9:30pm:
You dont need a heel mounted rear sight to use the back position.  There were several back positions. One required one arm around the back of the neck to hold the butt of the rifle. This puts your cheek on the stock.  I've seen pictures of a soldier shooting the Krag rifle in the back position. I tried it when I was in my early thirty's. Couldnt get steady or comfortable. 

Good luck and have fun.   Wink

         Joe.

Thanks westerner, Im aware of this, you'l notice in the post I mentioned I wished to stretch out a bit.  Shooting as you were describing.
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Guys must have been shorter then, or had more flexible spines, or maybe they had the luxury of having guns that fit THEM.  If you REALLY want a snort check out the alexander henry/daneil fraser dual position rifle............with 2 triggers and a pistol grip under the forearm!  Built specifically for that position you described and for looking plain wierd.



« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2012 at 12:04am by hickstick_10 »  
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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #8 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 12:12am
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Me duh! 

You did point that out clearly.   Embarrassed

before you go to all the trouble and expense, why dont you use a wood riser block and your Soule sight taped to the butt stock. At least so you can get on the living room floor to try the position out.  
Bob Zimmerman used to shoot in the back position. He had a leather strap of some kind he held in his teeth to steady his head and take the huge strain off his neck.  He shot well when his rifle didnt lead up. Bob had a weird experimental barrel on it, but that a whole different story. 

I think the shooters back then had more time to fire a shot and had beer and wine to relax a bit. Wink

        Joe. 

  

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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #9 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 12:20am
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Could be, maybe they were loosened up from the stiffer whiskey then, 100 proof back then was reserved for women and small children   Grin

Once I win the lottery, Il try to scare up a dedicated back position rifle


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Id post the photo, but they seem to show up to large.  Makes a man question what a "race gun" is nowadays dont it?
Il try out your taped sight idea, thanks alot.
« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2012 at 12:30am by hickstick_10 »  
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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #10 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 12:28pm
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THAT is a VERY strange rifle.  Wonder if you made a cartridge version of it, say on a Earle/Wesson action with its back action lock and showed up at some of the standard events.  probably drive the rules and gamesmanship guys bersark--that alone would make it worth doing.


I aslo want to know how the guy in the one pic wearing the top hat kept his hat on?  I can't see a chin strap
  

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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #11 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 1:11pm
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DW, that exact rifle you speak of is shown on pp 16-17 of Kirton's book on the British Falling blocks.  Called the Henry-Fraser 2 position rifle. Developed by Fraser while he still worked for Henry in 1877.  At least 24 were made according to it's PUN. You could use one of Steve Earle's actions to build the modern version but I think you would need a little ingenuity to link the front trigger to the action.  You would definitely get other shooters attention when you pulled that out of the case.
  
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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #12 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 2:21pm
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Those Brits. Two position, thats so funny.  Wished I had a picture of that! Was it a team match?  I wonder how they decided which one got to pull the trigger?

       Joe.
  

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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #13 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 5:23pm
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"You would definitely get other shooters attention when you pulled that out of the case."   and IF you won they'd be turning themselves and setting themselves on fire trying to figure out which way to disqualify you
  

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Re: heel sights for back position
Reply #14 - Oct 1st, 2012 at 7:29pm
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QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Oct 1st, 2012 at 12:28pm:
THAT is a VERY strange rifle.  Wonder if you made a cartridge version of it, say on a Earle/Wesson action with its back action lock and showed up at some of the standard events.  probably drive the rules and gamesmanship guys bersark--that alone would make it worth doing.


I aslo want to know how the guy in the one pic wearing the top hat kept his hat on?  I can't see a chin strap


They made a cartridge version.. hammered AND hammerless no less!  As was mentioned its in the Kirton book.

I would like to know how they saw the sights past the massive wiskers they had then especially shooting back position, seen a picture of Farqurharson?  Man had some very big chops and mustache.

Westerner, theres an engraving in the book on how the gun was used.  Its a one man job.
« Last Edit: Oct 1st, 2012 at 7:43pm by hickstick_10 »  
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