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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New 38-55 project (Read 18208 times)
MDev
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New 38-55 project
May 15th, 2012 at 7:54pm
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Here is my newest project. I know most of you fellows are not big fans of bolt actions (BTW why is that?) but this has a  real schuetzen look to it.  I am sure that in its time it fit into some class at the matches. When I bought this rifle the seller said it was a 9.3x62r and I was ok with that.  After casting the chamber the specs were just a bit off and looking through the COTW book I could not see a match anywhere.  The caption for the 9.3x62r it was very close to the 38-55 so I looked at it and it was a match.  I have no idea whether it was originally made for that cartridge or an alteration of the chamber was made later.  This rifle is after the 1871 Mauser pattern but without proof marks. The 38-55 came out around 1884 so it is just possible the rifle was chambered for it. It has double set triggers and a lot of fancy work.  It never had a barrel mounted rear sight just the receiver square in the tang for an aperture sight. Sadly it is not original and looks to be the Mortimer sight that DGW sells.  I had to add about 5/8th of an inch of ¼” key stock to the shank to have it set securely in the tang receiver.  I got my brass and bullets today and I will work up two starting loads one with BP and one with 3031.  I picked up some .375 250gn 20-1 hand cast bullets from BA. I am thinking of starting with 25 grs of 3031 for the smokeless load and a full case of Goex minus whatever I need for the bullet to seat with about an 1/8th inch of compression and we shall see how she shoots.
  
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JLouis
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #1 - May 15th, 2012 at 8:38pm
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Bolt or no bolt that sure is one lovely rifle and I am looking forward to your update on how she shoots so please keep us posted.

J.Louis
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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gewehrfreund
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #2 - May 16th, 2012 at 8:03am
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Have you had the stock off to look for proofs, etc. on the hidden areas of the barrel?
If it is original and German, it should have proofmarks somewhere.
Probably just me, but I would very careful about anything but the very mildest smokeless loads in this rifle.
  
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MDev
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #3 - May 16th, 2012 at 8:38am
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Yes the stock has been off and there are no proof markings at all.  I think the mandatory marking went into effect in the 1890s so this could have been earlier than that.  I never come anywhere near max loads with these old rifles.  what i do is make the middle of the range the max.  so if the data says 25-36 grans then i would impose something like 30 as my mak and start at the low end.  My intention is to shoot this rifle on occasion and only at paper so i probably won't need any hard hitting loads. Thanks for the advice its good to know people are looking out for each other here.
  
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boats
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #4 - May 16th, 2012 at 10:53am
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Nice rifle be fun to shoot.  Make sure the bullet fit's is the best advice

My standard 38/55 loads with 290 gr bullets are 16 grs 4759 or 17 grs of 4227.  I think 4759 gives slightly better results, 4227 measures better.  

Published 3031 loads mostly came out when 4759 was out of production. 3031 is not a good powder for the 38/55

Black powder I fill the case with 2 F it's about 43 grs weight.

All three about 1250 fps and very accurate 200 and even further.  

Boats
« Last Edit: May 21st, 2012 at 6:10pm by boats »  
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MDev
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #5 - May 16th, 2012 at 7:34pm
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Coud you explaine why 3031 is a bad choice.  I see published loads and some fellows swear by it.  I am working on a list of powders i would like to buy and am trying to keep it to a reasonable level.
  
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boats
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #6 - May 16th, 2012 at 9:15pm
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Too slow will leave a lot of unburned powder in the bore & inconsistent velocity. 3031 was formulated for high pressure bottlenecks of moderate size like the 30/30.  With the moderate loads we use in Schuetzen it's not optimal. 

If I was loading .375 Winchester (about the same case as 38/55) and jacketed bullets to hunting velocity in modern strong rifles 3031 would be a powder I would try.

Published generaly means safe does not always mean good.  Most of the Schuetzen loads we use are not in manuals.  4759 which was preceded by SR # 80 was formulated for the large straight wall cases duplicating black powder loads.  It's about ideal for the 38/55 and perhaps with 4227 the most often seen on target ranges with large straight cases. 

Doubt if anybody at Etna Green or Raton uses 3031 powder. Ask those guys who swear by it how it preforms side by side in competiton.

4759 went out of production for a number of years and manuals recommended other powders.  If not 4227 or 4759 something of similar burn rate is going to do best. Look at a relative quickness chart for other powders staying around 4759 rates.

You guys chime in if I am wrong

Boats
  
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BP
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #7 - May 17th, 2012 at 1:03am
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Boats, 

Good advice. 

I admit that I use 3031 in the 38-55 in a tight-headspaced WRA 1894 rifle with 26" nickel-steel barrel. These cartridges are loaded to the old 38-55 high-velocity levels, and it gives good hunting accuracy. 

But I do not use 3031 for lower velocity loadings.

  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
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boats
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #8 - May 17th, 2012 at 5:28am
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BP agree, get a 265 gr Jacketed going 1750 fps 3031 is about the right powder.  4759 is reported to spike in high pressure loadings, not the right powder for higher pressure.

It's all a question of suitability. Don't put diesel in in a gas engine, both engines, pressures are considerably different.

Boats
  
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MDev
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #9 - May 17th, 2012 at 6:15am
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The more i read the more i need to read.  Powder selection is like hot sauce.  there are different burn rates and everybody has an opinion about which one is best with what.  I looked at the spec for 4759 and it looks like a good match for my rifle as i said the most this rifle will ever have to go up against is paper so a moderate load is what i am looking for.  Thanks
  
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gewehrfreund
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #10 - May 17th, 2012 at 7:49am
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Check out Trial Boss. Over charges seem near impossible in most cases and pressures seem mild.
It's a popular Cowboy Action powder, but is catching on with other cast bullet shooters and those who don't need everything to be near max all the time. . .
  
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boats
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #11 - May 17th, 2012 at 1:34pm
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Our matches 4759 is the tradtional choice, Trail Boss is the new power favored.  Buddy of mine beat me in the annual club competiton last year with Trail Boss loads.  His powder did not hold him back thats for sure.

Burn rate for the job is key after that which one is Shell vs Exxon vs BP

Boats
  
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MDev
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #12 - May 17th, 2012 at 7:43pm
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I have heard some good things and bad about trailboss. It is an interesting choice and fairly versatile. It shows up on my list several times and i am considering it. I have been warned that the pressures get high for very little velocity. There are some cartridges that dont have data from the IMR website but it dose say you can fill the case, weigh it and then take 70% as a starting load. Seems to me that for the high end you have to look for signs of overpressure to tell when you have reached your upper limit.  I have a 45 LC 45-70 38-55, 10,5x47r and an 8.15x46 so i am trying not to buy 5 different powders at least not all at once.
  
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boats
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #13 - May 17th, 2012 at 8:49pm
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Not knocking Trailboss like I said it beat me last season. But it's a powder developed for Cowboy action shooting, low velocity in large cases for high volume shooting. That's not a good endorsement for precision shooting with a Schuetzen rifle.

Schuetzen matches 4227 or 4759 are the overwhelming choices for the old long straight cases. They were recommended to me when picking up Schuetzen from BPCS 20 odd years ago and never looked for anything else.

American Calibers you mention 4759 will do it all, Throw in some Unique for the 45 LC or the 38/55 and 45/70 with light gallery charges two powders are all you need. I don't know anything about the metrics.

Old rule of thumb was 4227 for 32/40 and below.  38/55 can use 4227 or 4759   45/70 use 4759   

Sound like I am selling the stuff ?

Boats
  
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gewehrfreund
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Re: New 38-55 project
Reply #14 - May 18th, 2012 at 7:26am
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I have only limited experience with Trail Boss at this point, so most of wht I know about it is based on that and what I've read.
As for 4759 (or 4227) and Unique, I agree they are really about all you need for light to mid-range loads. I've used a fair bit of 4759, but have never had the level of success (accuracy) with it that most seem to experience. I've had better luck with 4227.
  
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