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ssdave
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Highly unusual rolling block - What is it?
Mar 15th, 2012 at 12:55am
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I just bought this rifle, had to see what it was.  I don't have it in my posession, but there's good photo's of it in the link above.   It has U.S. Ordinance flaming bomb stamps, but is a blackpowder action.  I never have heard of a RB with these stamps.  What is it?

dave
  
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SSShooter
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Re: Highly unusual rolling block - What is it?
Reply #1 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 5:51pm
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I know very little about rollers, but that is a particularly nice lookiong rifle. Please keep us posted on what you find out and what you think of it once in your hands.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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ssdave
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Re: Highly unusual rolling block - What is it?
Reply #2 - Mar 15th, 2012 at 10:08pm
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Well, since nobody's bit on speculating on what this is, I'll go first with what I've though of mulling it over today.  The ordinance stamps are from the late WWI to WWII era if I remember right.  They were defintely not used pre-1900.  They were only applied to a very few rolling blocks.  Those were New York Contract rifles issued to the national guard in the 40's???.   

My initial thought to explain the markings was that this was one of the NYC actions, as the hammer on this is from a NYC rifle, but the trigger guard is not, and the breech block is not, and the tang markings are not, and the action is from a linear extractor, as it has the keeper screw.  However, the extractor looks like a NYC rotary extractor.  So obviously, the thing is parted together.  My thought is that this whole thing is parted together from available parts.  It still doesn't explain the ordinance stamps. 

I'll see how my guesses work out when the rifle arrives.  I may be able to tell more by looking at it more closely and taking it apart.  This rifle looks to have been in this configuration a long time.  The patina and wear looks like a long term complete rifle, not a recently assembled one.

I don't think anyone tried to fake something by the stampings, the price they asked didn't factor in anything except the basic rolling block parts value.

dave
  
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RBKenn
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Re: Highly unusual rolling block - What is it?
Reply #3 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 5:02am
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A few simple observations for what they are worth. The receiver has the square or flat back typical of receivers manufactured prior to 1872, certainly in keeping with the patent date stamps. The flat hub breech block was first introduced in Aug 1870. That particular hammer thumb piece checkering first shows up on military rifles in 1872. Almost all of the front barrel sights on military rifles were sweated on barleycorn types. Absent the Dane, the dovetail  sight would be unusual on this early a rifle. The front barrel band is too far behind the muzzle for typical military production be they 3 band, 2 band, or muskatoon. I would be inclined to say either the barrel and/or the forend has been modified at some point in its history. Rear barrel sight is post 1872.  Many of the U.S. stamped rolling block rifles were captured firearms (by the USA troops) during the Spanish American war, U.S. stamped, serial numbered, then re-issued to provincial troops after the US gained control of the  involved territories, the Philippines being a prime example. In any event worth the price for the action if nothing else. kenn
  
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ssdave
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Re: Highly unusual rolling block - What is it?
Reply #4 - Mar 16th, 2012 at 10:44am
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Kenn,

Thanks for the additional info.  The captured rifles being stamped makes sense, I hadn't run into that information before.

dave
  
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Re: Highly unusual rolling block - What is it?
Reply #5 - Mar 18th, 2012 at 11:49pm
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The seller states in his description that it is a 44 caliber but he has not slugged the bbl. Could be a 45/70 or??.
Rimmed cartridge anyway. Interesting rifle, forend looks kinda neat with the bbl maybe cut back some. Please post some pics when you get the chance. Frank
  

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Re: Highly unusual rolling block - What is it?
Reply #6 - Mar 26th, 2012 at 10:16pm
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Got the rifle today.   

Kenn gets the prize for the best guess.  Parted together somewhat, but is a 43 spanish reformado.   Quick check with a caliper shows bore is bigger than the smaller .43 spanish, but not quite the spec'd .454 it should be.  Forestock has been with the barrel most of its life, don't know when it was put on.  I'd put my money on the captured rifle arsenal restamped for reissue, and later parts replacements.  Has a very good bore, not excellent, but quite shootable.   

Another faceless nobody in the rolling block crowd, except for the flaming bomb stamps.  Those are unusual in that they're not commonly seen.

dave
  
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