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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) .25 Kraig (Read 12916 times)
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.25 Kraig
Jan 8th, 2012 at 12:14pm
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Anybody have any experience with one ?  It's one of the oldest high velocity wildcats. Even mentioned in Dr Manns book.  First one far as I know was set up on a Stevens 44 1/2 action

Thinking about a barrel for one of my CPA's  Like to get another good long range deer stand rifle This time on a single shot.  Have a good one now, 03 in 30/1906 with a Weaver T 10. 10 lb gun with a 10 power is just right would like less recoil though. 

Bought a Unertl 2 inch 10x target knob varmint yesterday. Sits nice on top of my CPA with it's 38/55 barrel.  Hot 25 scoped that way ought to be a good 300 yard gun.  CPA weighs just over 11 lbs Unertl another 2.  117 gr 25  around 3000 fps ought to recoil like a .22 in that rifle.

Paul Shuttleworth chambers for the .30 Kraig nothing on his site about the .25's

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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #1 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 1:06pm
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Boats, do you have John J Donnelly's book the handloaders manual of cartridge conversions,   some goos stuff in it bout 25 call,,,  had a friend whhad a 25-35 ackley imp,  did loading for him in colo,,,   didnt shoot as good with fast stuff till ya got down to 2900...
  
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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #2 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 1:27pm
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Don't have that one but do have Wolf's Wildcat cartridges they have a lot of historical detail on the Kraig 25 but not much on performance. Seems the cartridge was never standardized and a lot of difference one to the other. Some short, some long, some Kraig taper, some improved.

Wonder if 3000 feet is possible  in a single shot ?  250 Savage at 3000, if they in fact would do 3000, was with a 87 gr bullet. Ones to shoot today in 25's are the long high BC  bullets 117-120 grs .  Probably the fastest 25's are the Weatherby's  at about 3300 feet. Most of the Robert's are around 3000 

25/35 should be an easy one on CPA actions.  2900 feet is near enough to 3000 for me too. Think the only two .25 choices for a single shot that needs a rim are the 30/30 or .30 Kraig case. Any body correct me if I am wrong.

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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #3 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 1:52pm
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Boats
Why not load the 30 cal with a lighter bullet? My idea of long range is my 7mm ackley imp. I have been thinking about the 7mm waters for a 310 Martini. Had a 25 06 #1 didn't like it at all.
Tom
  
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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #4 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 2:08pm
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I have a bunch of primed cases already necked to 25 Krag. I never got around to putting one together but have researched it. For the full length non Imp 25, you can just use 257 Roberts loading data. Ackley has 25 Krag data as well as the #30 Ideal manual and maybe Sharps.

I have a 25/35 barrel for one of my 44 1/2's that I may run my Imp reamer into (not original barrel) but, I have to see how it shoots BSed first.

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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #5 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 3:46pm
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It's true that a 30/1906 is about as good as it gets for long range. O3 I have now just re-barreled with it's 3rd tube, 1935 Arsenal barre, It will shoot as well as any of the new magnums we see on our club range.  My Cousin has a 7mm Mag he closes his eyes when it goes off.  The 03 outshoots it every time we take them out. They do perform best with heavy bullets though. 165's in mine.

I was spoiled last 10 years with a good 7mm08 that performed well on deer with 139 gr bullets and a lot less recoil. Shooting it Silhouette It hit our Club Rams much harder with 168's at 500 meters than the 30/06 with 168 match kings. 7/30 Walters has always been intresting to me but for a light rifle not something heavy intended to be used long range.

Stoping my rambling and to the single shot cartridges. Frank, Never though about looking in Sharpes will do it now. Have Ackleys books too. So you figure the 25 Kraig with the full length case is about the same capacity as a 257 Roberts ? if so might be just the ticket.  What do you figure the 25/35 gives up in case capacity to the .25 Krag ? seems to me it would be considerably smaller.

Just thinking about a smaller caliber in a Rimmed case for my CPA single shot giving adequate deer performance at 300 yards.

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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #6 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 3:59pm
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Sure enough Phil Sharpe has some good data on the 25 Kraig. From his book seems to be a bit faster than the 250/3000 Savage about the same as the 257 Roberts and less velocity than the 25/06

Ackely has data too. Like always his published data shows amazing velocity for the .25 Kraig Way faster than I would want to push from a Single Shot

Am going to call Shuttleworth tomorrow see if he has a reamer.

One more thing "Mr Rifleman" the Whelan book has a photo of his High Wall in .25 Kraig.

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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #7 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 4:52pm
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As far as the 25/35 Imp goes, If I do mine, I will leave a .26 - .27 long neck. My Imp reamer has a 30 deg shoulder at .406 dia and I believe the case capacity will be very close to the 250/3000. I'm sure that I would be able to get at least 3000 fps from the 87 gr spitzer maybe as much as 3200. 26 - 2800 with the 117.

I have a 25 Remington and they list 2900 fps loads for the 87 gr and that is what I base my estimate on.

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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #8 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 8:03pm
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I have messed about with both.  The 25/35 Improved will give you grief when it comes to case forming & case life.  25 Krag is a much better choice.  Many different variants in both reamers & dies.  Proceed carefully, ask a lot of questions.
  
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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #9 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 8:28pm
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Thats good advice, Think only way I would go for one would be turn key gunsmith that has built one before and can supply dies etc same time.
 
Be nice if CPA has built some

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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #10 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 9:25pm
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If Paul and Gail has not made any in the past I am sure they would be more than happy to Boats. You might have to pay for the reamer that is kind of typical for a none stock caliber. I know they have put together a 270 and a few others that are not listed on the web site.

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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #11 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 9:44pm
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Boats, I am sure CPA could and would build a Rifle in that caliber. However it would be a Blued action as they show in their advertisement's. The Blued actions are Heat treated for High Pressure calibers. The caliber you should go for is ".25 Niedner Krag" Niedner was the creator of this 30-40 krag necked down to .25 Caliber with a blown out shoulder with a steep angle. Also RCBS offers dies for this caliber. I don't remember if they were a special order or not but they do offer them, I have a set. I have a Pope .25 Niedner Krag. I shot it with 39 Gr 3031 and a 100 gr Remington standard bullet as I had some at the time. It was and  still is a tack driver. I have not shot it much as I wish to preserve it's accuracy and condition. But the 39 Grain load had no outward effects on the brass. If you have one built make sure you specify neck diameter as mine requires the Brass be neck reamed during the initial forming operations. The neck is still quite tight as a fired shell will NOT accept a .25 caliber jacketed bullet pushed in by hand. This was a Jersey City Pope and is stocked in the Varmint Rifle style. Beautiful work, fancy wood and the finest Hiwall set triggers I have ever experienced. Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #12 - Jan 8th, 2012 at 9:48pm
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There is an article on the 25 Krag Improved in the 1963 Gun Digest - 17th Annual Edition.
  
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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #13 - Jan 9th, 2012 at 8:32am
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Thanks again

Fitz That's real interesting and illustrates what I have read about the cartridges history. Like to look at that Pope one time.

Been looking a ballistic charts and Bob Hagel's "Game Loads and Practical Ballistics"  It's the go to book on game shooting with Rifles.  Very different perspective than the one we have as target shooters. He speaks from Experience something a lot of the gun writers don't have

Hagel gives the 25 caliber 87 Grain Varmint bullets as sure hitters to 300 plus yards 117/120 gr Big Game bullets further. 300 is all I need in the East, elevated deer stands on cultivated fields. 257 Roberts ballistics are the ones I am looking at.  300 yards you do need a rifle that will shoot however. Little bit off is a big miss at distance

Let you know what Paul Shuttleworth says

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Re: .25 Kraig
Reply #14 - Jan 9th, 2012 at 9:19am
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As a matter of fact, I use a 250-3000 and 300 yds is easily within it's capabilities.  I use the 87 grain Sierra for NY whitetails.  For varmints I use  87 grain Speer tnt's, if I can find them. Point of all this is a 25 Krag should have no trouble matching, or exceeding the ballistics of a 250-3000.   Wink
  

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