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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) New member with decision problems (Read 12298 times)
NY Shooter
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New member with decision problems
Dec 27th, 2011 at 12:39pm
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Hello all,
I new to ASSRA and look forward to learning & sharing.   I grew up in the early 1980s rural MA with a single shot NEH 20 gauge and a single shot .22.   Returned to range/target shooting in the past 5 years.  I don't use a bench vise or anything like that.  Unclear if I will ever hunt again.  If I do it will be New York whitetail.  I have decided to get a centerfire rifle for 150-250 yard range shooting.    I have located three options and wanted some input....

I definitely prefer wood stocks.   My other firearms are Browning & CZ.   I've never shot with a scope before.  Always used iron sights.

First, is a new TC Encore in 308.  26 inch bull barrel, will need a scope.
Second, is a new Ruger #1, also in 308.  Has iron sights. Not sure my 45 year old eyes can shoot that far without a scope.
Third, is a used, mid-1970s, Browning B78 in 30-06.   Comes with an old Leopold scope.   Clearly the heaviest.  Perhaps same one that Badge 251 is looking at - who knows!
I am thinking my preference is for one of the falling block models....

I would appreciate comments/ideas....Thanks!
« Last Edit: Dec 27th, 2011 at 12:48pm by »  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #1 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 12:53pm
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NY Shooter,

You will help us out alot if you will define your "range/target shooting" requirements and give us an idea on what you want the rifle to do as well as what any asthetic concerns.

SS
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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NY Shooter
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #2 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 1:04pm
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SchwartzStock, 
Thanks for the reply & question.   My gun club has a range with a 250 yard max.   Options to shoot fixed targets every 50 yards or so.    I would like a rifle that is more accurate than I am - that I can "grow" into.   I find shooting to be one of the few activities where I can clear my mind and not focus on work or anything else.
I'm a historian and am quite taken by the aesthetics of the falling block system.   I would rather spend more $$ on high quality than go less-expensive to save a few bucks.   Am not really interested in newest/latest for sake of owning it....
Does that help?
  
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SSShooter
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #3 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 1:12pm
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If were me, of the rifles you've listed, I would try to find one of the Ruger #1s they made in the 6.5 Creedmoor,  22-250 or .243. The 6.5 is very accurate out to 1000yd and the 22-250 out to 600yd, should you decide to travel down to Ridgeway, PA or  to Milton near Saratoga Springs, etc., and shoot longer ranges. The .243 Win is also very accurate and non-fatiguing. But, putting all that powder through a 6mm hole burns out the barrel in ~1200 rounds for longer ranges. Probably be good for 2000rds at 250yd, though. The big decider is the caliber. 30-06 is a mite much for general target shooting in a non-gas gun unless you are going to shoot 600yd and further. Why beat yourself up?

Just a thought......... have you looked through the listings in the 'classifieds' here? There were a couple of Rugers listed. If you are willing to do some shopping or have a gun built, the 32-40 and 38-55 are about as accurate as anything you can shoot at 250yd unless you are going full-blown bench-rest, where it gets truly crazy and is measured in thousandths of an inch Shocked.
« Last Edit: Dec 27th, 2011 at 1:19pm by SSShooter »  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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SchwarzStock
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #4 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 1:33pm
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NYS.

If you are up to it and have the time/patience to learn to load and shoot BP it can be quite enjoyable and "distracting". Even if you do not reload you can still get into the game shooting modern 45-70 ammunition in and old style rifle i.e. Sharps, Rollng block, High Wall, etc. You can also spend as much $$ as you have getting the perfect rifle. Once you have it though you will probable find there is a new perfect rifle you need...

Take a look at the rifles from: C. Sharps, Shiloh Sharps, Borchardt Rifle Company, Providence Tool. Stay away from the Italian stuff.

SS
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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waterman
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #5 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 1:55pm
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Welcome, NYS

You listed your 3 options and promptly were steered elsewhere.  Going back to your 3 options, you will find several comments in other discussions on this Forum about the B-78.  If you read them, you may think more about your options 1 & 2. 

The Ruger #1 would be my choice of the 3, if for no other reason than it is easier to hunt with than a bull barreled rifle and also for ease of resale if you did not like it.  Lots of Ruger #1s have scopes.  It's just a matter of mounts and finding a scope that you like. 

waterman
  
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JLouis
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #6 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 1:58pm
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If you love shooting I would seriously think about a 32-40. In the accuracy department it is second to none using breach seated bullets. It is very economical once you have the rifle in hand and casting bullets as well as shooting small groups can be very self rewarding. CPA makes very nice rifles of your choosing in regards to how fancy you would like it as well as a very good variety of cartridges and their lifetime warranty and service is second to none. Taking an occasional  deer with it would not be an issue either and by casting your own bullets it would make the hunt that much more special. 
Here is fine example of their work in 30-40 Krag with some extras and all though a tad much for casual shooting and or competition it would make a very nice rifle as is. There are also 36 pictures of this rifle to enjoy. The Unertl scope is worth anywhere from 750.00 and up depending on the condition and how much one wants one. I have seen them get as high as to 900.00 to a 1000.00 back when the economy was good.

If cast bullets is not in your future you can also have the rifles chambered for most popular high power jacketed bullet cartridges.

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J.Louis
  

" It Is Better To Now Have Been A Has Been Than A Never Was Or A Wanna Be "
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NY Shooter
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #7 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 2:10pm
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I appreciate all the quick and informative responses.   
My thinking behind .308 or .30-.06 is, in part, availability & cost of ammunition.   I have not jumped into the reloading arena yet...I handgun shoot 9mm and .22.   
I think I have to draw the line between $$ and what I'll call "to much $$$"!    I'm getting bored with .22 rifle and this will be my first single shot...need to draw draw the line somewhere!   If for no other reason - my wife's willingness to ignore only goes so far...
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #8 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 2:37pm
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NYS,

If part of your goal is something historical none of the three rifles you mentioned fit that requirement. Of them, only the Browing is close but chambered for a cartridge that came along later. It also lacks the top tang making mounting a good (authentic to the design) rear sight problematic.

If you are not looking for a rifle primarily for use on the range but rather focused for "possibly hunting",  disregard and buy the Ruger. They don't have much personality and are only loosely based on an old design but are reliable for a hunting gun. Check out gunbroker and look for one of the Lyman/Ruger commemoratives, have sort of an old look to them. They come in a fitted case with a mounted scope. The last one I saw sell went for about $1400.

SS
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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JLouis
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #9 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 2:59pm
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Here one that is posted on the Gunbroker site for sale. I believe this what SS is referring to.

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J.Louis
  

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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #10 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 3:00pm
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If you tie yourself to your options, get the Ruger in 308. 308 will make a good double purpose caliber. It can shoot both cast and jacketed well.

Rugers can be cantankerous though so, talk to a lot of Ruger people to get it to shoot.

After the "bug" has imbeded it's self deep, then look for a real HW or 44 1/2 CPA or original.

Frank
  

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NY Shooter
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #11 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 3:43pm
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Its a rainy afternoon...gonna take a little drive to handle them again.   Dead quiet here in office.    Thanks for all the comments.   Will report back if a decision has been made.

I definitely see argument for regarding this as "starter" single shot.  I do regard these choices (probably go with Ruger I think) as a solid place to start.   Upgrading is always a possibility.  But next step would be investment grade.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #12 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 10:39pm
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If you are considering something with history behind it I would suggest something like a Sharps repo, a Winchester High Wall, original or repo, or a Stevens 44 1/2, original or CPA repo as stated earlier. I consider the CPA a bargian if you want a new gun, especialy if you can finish the stock yourself. Lots of good options out there. The Ruger is also a great choice if you are not intersted in historical signifance.
  
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #13 - Dec 27th, 2011 at 11:02pm
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Given your three choices, I would go with the Ruger.  Reasons:   

1)  Break action guns are no fun to shoot on the bench at the range.  Have to re-arrange everything every time you shoot and load.
2)  B-78 in 30-06 will not be fun to shoot a lot of factory ammo through.  Too light for the cartridge for target use.  B-78's have notoriously hard to improve triggers.  A lot better hunting rifle than a target one.
3)  Of the three choices, falling block instead of break action and .308 instead of .30-06 leads to the Ruger.

That said, what I personally would do given the choices you have put out is to get a Winchester high wall or a low wall in a smaller caliber.  For factory ammo at low cost, I would get a newly manufactured .22 hornet low wall by Browning or Winchester.  Low recoil, a lot of fun to shoot, and inexpensive ammo.  Nice action, the new 1885's are similar to the B-78 but better trigger.  If I could get one with the tang for metallic sights, I would do that.  Other good calibers would be .32-40 or .38-55.  Or, .223.  I have one in .223 and it's great to use.  I know where one is for sale in .22-250 for $700 that is new in the box.  Most any of them can be purchased from $800 to $1150.

If you get into this a bit deeper later, get a custom older winchester 1885 high wall or low wall.  Your first rifle will hold most of it's value for resale as you trade up if that's important.  A custom will get you a rifle that's more suited for exactly what you decide you want to do.  You'll want to get into reloading eventually.  Once you reload, a whole new world opens up in caliber choices.  You can load your ammo to suit your purposes and to suit your rifle.   

As mentioned before, you can get a new CPA, and get more than one caliber barrel if you like.  Or, find a historical action you like and get an existing rifle or a reproduction of it.  A lot of choices.  For many of us here, it becomes most of our lives.   

Welcome to the fun!

dave

  
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Singleshotlover
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Re: New member with decision problems
Reply #14 - Dec 28th, 2011 at 12:09am
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NYS, as a ex-new yorker get the ruger in 308. Play with that until you get a good feel for what you want. Suggestion if the 30-40 krag cartridge rings your bell its fairly easy to get your ruger re barreled for that cartridge. Douglas barrel 1x10 twist or whatever barrel you wish. Numrich sells the extractors for the #3 ruger carbine in 30-40 so that would make the switch easier. The 30-40 krag is an excellent cast bullet cartridge as well as a good one to hunt with. Frank
  
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