Here's one for the .22 short experts. 

Club rimfire single shot gong match last Sat. Cold  32 degree overcast day no wind. New shooter has his Grandfathers all original Winder Musket in .22 short.   

I am singing up, squadding shooters, taking the money, answering questions from 20 plus shooters and don't pay particular attention to guys sighting in. Sombody else is running the line.

It's a small Ram hung at 75 yards. visual and scores in actual matches identical to NRA's Smallbore Cowboy lever ram.  Hanging from chains, berm is about 10 feet behind the White painted Rams ( 6 of them two for each squad) covered in Black Mulch. Good target contrast but real difficult to spot misses with 40 gr .22's no doubt impossible with a 30 gr .22 Short.

Match gets started noticed he is using his Bolt Scoped Silhouette Rifle, which we allow with new shooters just not for prizes. Asked him later why not the Winder. Said it would not shoot, guys told him the bullets were not getting to the target. Then all sorts of bad advice given on what to do with this nice old untouched Winder. Been my experience few people have ever shot a .22 short, how would they know.

Next week I am going to take it out to the same range and put the Winder on paper Bench Rest first at 25 yards then at 75 with some good .22 short ammo.  Same time bench my CPA with R50 right next to it as control. Same targets same number of shots will change my front sight to the same post he was using.

I fully expect my CPA 10 shots at 75 to go well under an inch, and would bet this Low Wall Winder who's bore looks good to shoot right at 1 inch. Going to save the targets and give them to him with his Winder.

What do you think I will find ?

Boats

For me, I think the Winder might have a chance if you use CCI mini mags instead of R50.

Frank

Waterman this ones a 3rd model with the Lyman sight. Will take my disk box along, good advice

Gong is about 7 moa high x 9 wide so a 1 1/2 inch grouping offhand Single shot is good enough. It's a easy offhand target. What's hard is hitting it every time. Match record is 39/40 set last Sat with a Martini International.  We shoot it CF too at 200 yards, Match record is 38/40.

We score the top 5 matches annually for club championship 200 targets. That Martini shooter hit 183 out of 200 this year. And only shot the required 5 matches no catch up.  He's a Master class Smallbore Silhouette shooter and High Power High Master. Wish I could get him shooting Schuetzen.

Of course Rifle that groups better than 1 inch will score higher. New shooter can compete with a 2 moa rifle though. Will see how it does.

Will put it on the ASSRA 50' first as you say it's a very good indicator of mechanical precision.   

Boats

Know what you mean on the Ballard's potential vs the Winder. We are sort of at a crossroads with this match. It's intended for the run of the mill ordinary Single Shot and Lever .22.  Some of the top grade Martinis are shooting it now and my Rifle stocked CPA gets noticed on how well it shoots, compared to a Marlin 39A or Jap Low Wall most of the other guys have. 

It's never been won by a lever gun although last Sat a very good CLA rimfire shooter hit 35/40 with his 39A. Exception to the rule however.

Think next year will add a "Free Rifle" class.  Give nice old match rifles a place to shoot and take the top shooters using them out of contention for the other guys.  If so can shoot my CPA Schuetzen which is every bit as good offhand as my old Anschutz 54 super match.

This past year I shot two of the matches with my Low Wall, two with a 39A lever one with a M 1922MII Springfield (not for record) and two with the rifle stocked CPA. Just to see what the potential is with each one. Fact of the matter is not a lot of difference one to the other.

Center fire version of the same match only used the CPA in 38/55

It's a fun match and has built a core of single shot shooters that did not exist in our area before.

Boats

Yes, that's why I suggested them. I think the quality would be comparable the the CCI shorts. I used the mini's years ago and found them to do well for what they are. 

Anyway, it would be great to see how that Winder works and comparing them with similar ammo. It's to bad they don't make match shorts.

I've pasted on a couple of Winders in my area, but, both had bad bores.

Frank

My 22 short has a decided preference for CCI HPs.

Just a question.  some years back I had one of the Miroku/Browning lo-walls in 22lr-rf that shot really well.  But I got into some discussions about low walls and accuracy.  There was some common and strong opinion voiced that original Win Lo-walls had erratic ignition issues due to the way the extractor supported (or didn't)only a small portion of the rimfire case.  The Miroku iteration of the 22 rf lo-wall had an extractor that held the whole lower half of the rim.

I'd think (if that is indeed accurate info) that when you are working at the outer limits of the 22 rf-short's range that any very minor variations in ignition would lead to more significant variations on the target face.

I had pretty good results with the Fiocchi new Super Match ammo on the 200 yd Rf Bench matches last season and will be shopping for a case or two over this offseason.  I don't know if that is made in a 22 short though.

Plenty of opinions out there here's mine

My Original Low Wall won't shoot with my CPA's.  However I account it to several things, weight on the bags.  Difference in Douglas & Green Mt. 2 1/2 lb trigger vs 4 oz set.  5x MVA B 5 vs 12x Unertl or 20x STS.  CPA to Low wall may be 1/4 inch different at 50 yards bench. Offhand matches my Low Wall scores are just a bit lower than CPA's all due to weight and trigger.

My opinion is if the two rifles were set up exactly the same way performace would be exactly the same, Extractor is not limiting the Low Wall

Lot of guys at our matches shoot the new Low walls Never looked at the extractors.

If I look at the breaching CPA vs the Low Wall. way the rim is supported is considerably different. Although if the block fits tight and pushes the extractor  in the chamber cut out tight I doubt if it's going to make much difference. All opinion not supported by any definitive testing


Boats