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RevGeo
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New Guy with question
Nov 22nd, 2011 at 11:54am
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Hi, I'm new here. Have been a single shot fan for years. Anyway I have a rifle that maybe you-all can help me figure out.
I inherited this rifle when my father passed way back in '92. He was a true rifle crank from the old days and had quite the collection. Among the high walls and such he had a particular rifle I never got to discuss with him. 
It is a single shot sporter built on a 98 Mauser action. It is chambered for 30-40 Ackley Improved. My dad was a big fan of Ackley and had several rifles rechambered to ol' PO's high velocity numbers. The bore mic's .315(!) so the RCBS dies for it are stamped '30-40X.315 Ackley Imp.' I have a swage die that squeezes modern .323 8mm bullets down to .315, but to tell you the truth it will shoot 1.5" groups with .312 bullets for a .303. The original cartridge must have been rimmed (like the 30-40 Krag) and the barrel is a stepped military looking tube. The stock looks to be a converted military and shows the signs of my dad's impecable wood work. The stock is definitely for a single shot since there is no mortice for a box magazine. There is what looks like a standard Mauser magazine follower screwed to the stock where the mag mortise would be. You just drop a shell on this thing and close the bolt. No hang ups at all. 
The thing is, I've heard of .318 and .323 8mm bores but nothing in .315. I've heard of rifles built by the Germans near the end of the war using parts and pieces for militia uses and some of them were single shots. But this rifle seems to have a very high quality 98 action and a great bore. I am wondering if it could have been some sort of sporter Mauser action for some caliber I have never heard of. Any ideas? I'm not very good at getting pics on the computer so I hope this description will suffice. Any info would be helpful.
FWIW it is my main elk and deer rifle these days and shoots like a dream. Thanks in advance for any ideas.

George
  
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waterman
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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #1 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 12:27pm
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Welcome, George

Are there any maker's marks on the action?  The Brits back before the War, or maybe WW1, used to refer to the 8 x 50 Austrian cartridge as the .315.  But that was bore diameter, not groove diameter.  I think the bullets were .323s.

There were Mauser 98s or modifications thereof made for rimmed cases.  Some were made in .303 British, I think for Estonia.  Or it could be a Siamese action.  Or maybe one made by Steyr for use with a rimmed case.   

And some time back, maybe in the 1950s (?), FN made a 98 single shot action for dedicated bench rest rifles.  I think some of those could have been set up for rimmed cases.

Maybe the barrel came from some other military rifle.  Some of the Argentine barrels were very nice but of odd bore diameter.  Your Dad could have had an action made for a rimmed case rebarreled with a good military barrel and then rechambered for an Ackley wildcat.

waterman
  
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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #2 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 1:58pm
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Since your barrel is stepped, It almost has to be a 7.65x53 military, rechambered to 30/40. The Mauser action, is most likely a small ring as that was the size of the 7.65X53. If it were a sporter type barrel, it could have been a 8.15x46R barrel. There groove sizes varied a lot and were in that .315 range.

Frank
  

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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #3 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 5:14pm
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And the whole thing could be one of those Mauser 98 single shot target rifles in 8.15 x 46 R that had the extractor ground back and a rechambering job.  Externally they looked like a German military rifle.

I can't remember the German name.  Something like Whermansgewher.  Spell check tells me I'm trying to say "transgenders" but that is not it at all. Grin

But they were relatively high-cost rifles from the 1920s & 1930s.
  
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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #4 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 5:23pm
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If you check the twist rate, it should tell you if it could have been a 8.15x46R. The twist for that caliber is around 14. If it's a 7.65X53, it will be 9.8.

Frank
  

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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #5 - Nov 22nd, 2011 at 7:01pm
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This is a variety of German "Wehrmann-Gewehr":

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Sport rifles in military style from round 1900 to the end of WWII.

                   Biggi.   Smiley
  

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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #6 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 3:18am
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George,

I think Biggi's post showed what your rifle was like before your father decided it needed to be re-chambered.  Most definitely not a run-of-the-mill German military rifle.

We would be interested to learn of any markings on the action or barrel.

waterman
  
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RevGeo
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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #7 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 9:32am
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Well, thanks to Biggi's post I believe I found it! On the forward receiver ring, partially obscured under the scope mount I made out Hae----enz. According to the page Biggi posted it is an Original Haenel-Lorenz 8.15X46R. Unfortunately I don't speak German (even though my mother was a German war bride she taught none of her kids to speak German) I now know what my rifle is. Thanks to all for the speedy replies and especially a big danke to Biggi!
I will try googling the name and see what I can find in English. Like I said previously this is a sweet shooting and fine looking rifle. It weighs 8lbs 4oz so makes a fine mountain rifle for my hunting here in North Idaho. I shot a whitetail buck with it a couple of weeks ago using a handload of 50gr H380 behind a 174gr .312 diam. Hornady bullet. It shoots just fine with the .312 bullets and I haven't yet tried any of the .323 bullets swaged down to .315.
Thanks again for all the help. You gentlemen have made a new guy feel quite welcome.

George
  
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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #8 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 11:59am
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I think you will really enjoy the 30/40AI, plus the fact that it was your dad's rifle.  I have a Martini that I built up back in '69 with a 26" 1/10 twist Ackley tube.  I don't load it hot, 49gr 4831 behind a 180gr RN Hornady, 2200fps, gives me clover-leaf groups at 100 if I do my part.  Enjoy!  Goatwhiskers the Elder
  

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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #9 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 3:39pm
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George, could it be that your present swage die would bump up a .311 or .312 bullet to .315?  That is a lot less work.
  
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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #10 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 4:50pm
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RevGeo, you can read most of Biggi's post if you load the adderess into Goole Translate.

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Frank
  

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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #11 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 5:58pm
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If you want to know more about Wehrmann-rifles, I have on my homepage more about history and techniques of Wehrmanns. 

Maybe you can get it with that translation thingy, but normally the translations are very bad, because the translation tools doesn't know all those special terms and expressions for rifles and guns.

Here are more pages about wehrmann:

History:  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Techniques:  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Sport:  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

                           Biggi.   Smiley
  

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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #12 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 7:54pm
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This has been a extremely interesting subject for me. I especially like this part.

The fitting of glasses is not permitted, however, are Diopterbrillen approved. Patronenlager und Züge können beliebiger Konstruktion sein. Magazine and the trains can be of any design. Der Druckpunkt muß 1,5 Kilogramm halten. The pressure point must hold 1.5 kilograms. Zugelassen sind die deutschen Gewehre Modell 88 und 98, der deutsche Karabiner bis einschließlich Kaliber 8,15mm, das österreichische Gewehr sowie der Karabiner System Mannlicher (Steyr) bei gleicher Visierung und Druckpunkt, wie für die deutsche Wehrmannbüchse, nur als Einzellader benutzbar. Open to the German rifles model 88 and 98, the German rifle up to and including caliber 8.15 mm, the Austrian rifle and the carbine system Mannlicher (Steyr) at the same sight and tactile feedback, such as usable for the German armed man rifle, just as a single shot. Die Visierkimme muß dreieckig, das Korn dachförmig, letztes kann an der Oberkante bis 2mm breit sein. The rear sight must be triangular, roof shape, the grain, while the latter can be up to 2mm wide at the top. Visier und Korn können seitlich verstellbar sein.“ Visor and grain can be adjusted sideways. "
 
As i have several 1888's and I had always wanted to to convert one of them to a Schuetzen of some sort and to convert it to a "Wehrmann-Gewehr" is the perfect way, with a lot less work than I had planned.

Biggi, can you translate the following from your text from one of your articles?

Es reichte, mit der Zündhütchenzange das abgeschossene Zündhütchen zu entfernen und ein neues Zündhütchen zu setzen, die fertig abgewogene Pulverladung einzufüllen und das Geschoss entweder von Hand oder mit einem einfachen Geschosssetzer in den Hülsenmund zu schieben

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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #13 - Nov 23rd, 2011 at 11:48pm
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I havent been following this thread very close. So if I'm off here, blast away at me. 

"It is a single shot sporter built on a 98 Mauser action."

That sentence from the opening post. Doesnt sound like a Wehrmann rifle to me.   

Would be nice to see a picture of the rifle.  One of us can post it for RevGeo.

                  Joe.
  

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Re: New Guy with question
Reply #14 - Nov 24th, 2011 at 2:20am
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Joe, I have seen 3 different Wehrmanngewer, covering the range of pics in Biggi's post, from a Gew 98 with the Lange sight to a post-1918 rifle to a Kar 98K.  All were single shots on the 98 action with no magazine, all were 8.15x46R, all had military type sights.   

No reason you could not use a 98 sporter stock on one, grind a bit on the extractor, run in a larger chambering reamer & change the sights.

Richard
  
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