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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Re: Constant Casting Tempreture (Read 14471 times)
frnkeore
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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Nov 7th, 2011 at 9:26pm
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Thanks John, that seems like a very good idea. 

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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #1 - Nov 7th, 2011 at 11:53pm
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John 

Are you using a dial thermometer?  I've been using a digital pyrometer which seems to be very accurate but I use a propane burner and keeping the temperature within say +/- 20 F is not easy.   I guess I need to go electric Smiley

Dave
  
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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #2 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 12:36am
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I recall having a conversation with Merrill Martin many years ago where he mentioned that he drilled a hole in each mould he owned for a small thermometer, and used that as a means of keeping track of what was needed for that individual mould to cast good bullets.

David
  

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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #3 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 4:19am
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I use a Lee 20# dipper-pot with the thermostat as it came from the factory. I weigh (almost) all bullets I cast. For the last 24,628 bullets cast, the standard deviation has averaged .152 grains. Thus, virtually all bullets weigh +/-.5 grain. With a properly warmed up mold left on the rim of the pot, and after pot and mold warm up for at least 45 minutes, bullets almost always vary +/-.3 grain or less.
I have never been able to detect accuracy differences as a function of bullet weight, excluding outliers. Bullets varying from 199.5 to 200.5 grains shoot as accurately as bullets weighing 200.0 grains. Outliers are bullets weighing, per the example above, 194 or 203 grains. Many shooters agree with my experience, and I have never seen a reliable report ahowing that .5 grain variation in bullet weight yielded less accuracy than .0 grain variation.
The use of a dimmer switch to vary power eliminates the cycling of the thermostat, theoretically reduces temperature variation in the pot-but only if there is no variation in casting procedure during the session-and possibly reduces the variation in bullet weight. 
I doubt that the dimmer yields bullets with less weight variation-data is needed-and my experience is that even if weight variation can be reduced below that of well-cast thermostat pot bullets, no demonstrable accuracy improvement will be seen-again, data is needed.
The dimmer is a solution in search of a problem, as are the dial lead pot thermometer, the electronic dissimilar metal thermometers and the laser bathtub.
The above is only my experience and opinion, and I could be wrong. I'm ready to admit my error after the data arrives.
joe b.
  
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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #4 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 5:57am
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"The dimmer is a solution in search of a problem, as are the dial lead pot thermometer, the electronic dissimilar metal thermometers and the laser bathtub"


Snicker  Grin

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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #5 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 7:06am
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I use a dial thermometer in my large cast iron pot, fueled by 3 gas jets.  Watch it for a while you realise how much alloy temperature variation there can be. 

It can vary due to gas setting but my experience is it's the least of potential variations.  Pot gets empty the alloy gets hotter.  No new news here ever fry fish the same thing happens you have to add fresh fish as you take out or the oil will start to smoke, or turn the heat down. Working outside in the winter have seen wind around the bottom of my furnace cause real changes in the alloy temperature.  So much I build a wind sheld out of fire bricks around the furnace. Cranking on and off the gas jets while keeping my eye on the thermometer produces better bullets.

Add the potential variation in mold temperature due to casting rate it's a important issue one of the most important.  I have been trying one of the "gun" style temperature meters but have not found it sensitive or accurate enough to be useful. Gives you a precise  read out but dependent on were it's aimed. Plus you have to stop and shoot what you want to read with no reference on were the temperature was last time you checked  or the trend. 

Dial Thermometer the needle starts to move I make adjustments.  I think casting just like frying fish or shooting rifles, no substitute for mass to minimize variations.  Cast iron furnace large pot full of alloy firebricks around the pot to contain heat and the ability to adjust the flame. I would think electric pot large capacity is also a good solution

Now the bench rest shooters will like this part, I don't weigh them. Used to but found little variation and was a real pain to do.  Give my bullets very close visual inspection and reject anything that does not look right. While casting, as they go on a tray after cooled and as they are put into  plastic individual compartment bullet boxes.  3 visual checks. If it looks good it is good is my opinion

Boats
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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #6 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 7:42am
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I know a shooter who drilled a hole in his Hoch mold. Then installed a, a , a, uh,  I can never remember what its called. Has to wires in it that go to a multimeter. Anyway, he casts a bullet which raises the temperature of the mold. When the mold comes down to a certain temperature he casts another bullet and so on and on and on.

Most of my bullets come out within three tenths of a grain so dont worry about temperature.  If you believe adding a dimmer switch will make better bullets, you will most likely shoot better.  My dad tapes cow magnets to the gas line on his truck. Dad gets better mileage that way.

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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #7 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 7:43am
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What wire size is recommended for the Dimmer switch?

Ron
  
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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #8 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 8:27am
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I hate to seem dumb but what is a cow magnet? I may want one.
  

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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #9 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 8:28am
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John
I have found that getting good consistent bullets is more about learning a molds personality than anything else. Some will want higher temps some want you to work fast others slow. Once I have figured out what they want I can then keep a .32 bullet within .3 of a grain after casting 10 to 12 bullets. It is more about that and rhythm than anything else. I cast with a Rapine electric pot. 

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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #10 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 9:02am
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tbird1960 wrote on Nov 8th, 2011 at 8:27am:
I hate to seem dumb but what is a cow magnet? I may want one.



Its a round cylindrical magnet with rounded ends. It's placed in a cows stomach, first stomach I think, to collect and hold staples and nails and metal junk a cow may consume. Like having a magnet attached to the drain plug of an engine.   They also make fancy hitech cow magnets for farmers who want that extra edge in consistency and performance. 

Dad says when the gas flows between the two magnetic fields, it changes the molecular structure of the gasoline, therefore he gets better gas mileage.  My brother believes humans are descended from aliens from outer space who landed here eons ago. 

I dont argue with them.   Wink


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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #11 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 9:09am
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Just got to thinking about this casting/temp thing.  Wouldnt it be cheaper and just effective to tap into the 110 line in your pot with a jumper wire and an alligator clip?  Clip it to your arm or ear or something, and when you get shocked it will prompt you to cast a bullet, REAL FAST.  Shocked   Might set a casting record doing it that way.  You could cast a years supply of bullets in one day maybe.  Maybe.   Huh

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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #12 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 9:33am
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Boy has this topic run all over the place...laser bathtubs to cow magnets Smiley

The infrared or gun type temperature meters won't work very well on molten lead because the emissivity (think how shiny the lead is or isn't) varies all over the place and hence the meter gets tricked.  Emissivity is a factor that can vary from nearly 100% (black body) to a very low number for reflective metals.   The handheld infrared meter might work on a mold if you painted a place black so the emissivity factor was close to one.   I've been thinking of putting a small thermocouple into a mold but I hate to mess with molds.  I bought a small Type K pyrometer (the electronic device to plug the thermocouple into) for about $35 on EBay.  It works very well in the lead pot...just buy the stainless steel sheathed probe about 8 " long.    

I also get very consistant bullet weights when I can hold the temp to around 800 F to maybe 820 F (20:1 in a 207 gr Hoch .322 BS mold).  I use a huge Dutch Oven pot of lead...maybe 50 pounds of more which helps with temperature stability.  

What temperature to others find works best for 32 cal castings?  

I've got to try preheating the mold on a hot plate...too many wasted bullets preheating and worse in the winter here in Salt Lake City.  


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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #13 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 12:29pm
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Westerner ,
Thanksgiving dinner must be a hoot.
Kurt
  

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Re: Constant Casting Tempreture
Reply #14 - Nov 8th, 2011 at 2:25pm
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Kurt_701 wrote on Nov 8th, 2011 at 12:29pm:
Westerner ,
Thanksgiving dinner must be a hoot.
Kurt


Way way out there man! 


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