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spitpatch
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A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Oct 31st, 2011 at 12:30am
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Back from a month-long hunt in Montana, with the primary goal to take a Pronghorn with a recently-acquired '85 High Wall, caliber .25-20 Single Shot.

The Gun: 1885 Winchester Special Sporting Rifle (1904 mfg), #3 barrel, 32" length, #2 wood, close-coupled double-set trigger, Lyman tang sight.  When purchased, the front sight was an ivory fine bead, marked "Lyman 1890", but regrettably it had been mashed to a 90-degree bend, and did not survive the attempt to straighten it.  Pressed for time, and still in research phase for a "correct" front sight, a modern brass-bead sight was hurriedly installed just prior to the hunt.

Time restrictions also precluded preferable load development to include cast bullets, and so also with field performance in mind, a jacketed bullet load recommended for the .25-20 WCF was quickly cobbled together.  Perhaps not surprisingly to others with more High Wall experience, the rifle grouped 1.22" at 100 yards despite such brief effort toward sighting equipment and ammunition.

The cartridge proved adequate, but not immediately decisive toward the goal.  The Pronghorn buck was at 91 yards, and the first shot hit high in the ribs.  As he stumbled, the rifle was reloaded, and the second shot to the shoulder knocked him down.  A third was deemed necessary for a humane finish.

Having hunted Pronghorn for 44 years, I have seen many of them that have taken more than one shot to kill with cartridges deemed far more "capable" than this one.  In this instance, the rifle did its job, the cartridge did what it could, and if any fault can be assigned it should be to the shooter.  Any designs toward asking this much from this fine rifle and cartridge again will be seriously and self-critically pondered.

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frnkeore
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Re: A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Reply #1 - Oct 31st, 2011 at 2:37am
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Tell us more about the bullet and velocity or powder charge. Did the bullets expand or go through w/o deforming.

Frank
  

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boats
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Re: A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Reply #2 - Oct 31st, 2011 at 7:15am
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Would be real interested in distance point of impact bullet performance and effect.  No Pronghorn experience but fair amount of deer as well as lot of 32/20 rounds in Silhouette.  Don't think of it as a deer cartridge in any way and 25/20's don't hit as hard as the 32's.   

Of course they can be killed with Arrows and Pistols if hit right. Appreciate if you pin down the exact details

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spitpatch
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Re: A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Reply #3 - Oct 31st, 2011 at 11:51am
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Thanks for the interest. The load was from Ken Waters' book (again, from .25-20 WCF data), and comprised of 10.5g of IMR4227, Jamison brass (new), Hornady 75g Vmax bullet, Federal 205 Match primer.  Waters stated velocity in a 92 WCF rifle was 1760fps.

Preliminary impact tests resulted in about 50 percent of total jacket expansion (fired at 100 yards into 4 1-gallon water jugs: the bullet recovered from the third).

I had successfully taken a Pronghorn previously with this bullet in a Marlin 62, .256 Winchester at 2350fps: a very impressive one-shot kill.  I would have liked to step up the velocity (though not quite that fast) for this venture in the High Wall, but time restraints dictated safety and also concern for the gun.

None of the bullets were recovered, one did exit, and I will assume the other two resided somewhere in the lungs: undiscovered during field dressing.  Both lungs were severely perforated, and the shoulder shot did result in fracture.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Reply #4 - Oct 31st, 2011 at 1:42pm
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I have a Remington Model 25 in 25/20 Win. I've shot up to 16.0 gr of Rx7 with the Seirra 75 gr hollow point spitzer, loaded single. I got groups in the 1" range with the 16.0 gr load. I didn't chronograph it but, my estimate of that load is 2000 fps in a 24" barrel.

If you have the time, I'd start at 14.0 gr of Rx7 and work up. AA1680 might be a very good powder, also.

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spitpatch
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Re: A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Reply #5 - Nov 1st, 2011 at 11:31am
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Thanks Frank,

Yes. 1680 has worked as my primary powder for the Hornet very well, and I believe it is a stellar candidate for this similarly shaped cartridge.  It gave no unpredictable velocity spikes in the Hornet, and fills the case properly with loads at the higher range.  It will figure prominently in future "field performance" (as well as  cast-bullet/target) load development for the .25-20 SS.

I believe the .25-20 SS case, with its long neck will have very similar water case capacity measurements as the .256 Winchester.  This will be verified shortly.  The .256 demonstrates best accuracy with loads that do not push any pressure envelopes, preferring velocities that are well below what is actually safely possible, and in this strong gun, my loads for the .256 will be a guideline (but not necessarily a goal) for the .25-20 SS.

Having no experience with Rx (Reloader?) 7, I also appreciate that suggestion based on your results, and intend to try it as well.  AA1680 was a remarkable and favorable departure from the old standby powders for the Hornet.  Perhaps I will try Rx7 in it as well with hopes for similar (or even better) results.

The 75g hollowpoint was a neck-and-neck contender for accuracy in the .256.  However, expansion tests demonstrated that this bullet at 2350fps did not expand as well as the Hornady Vmax, suggesting the hollowpoint is of more stout construction, better suited for its original purpose: extreme high velocity loads in the .25-06, Roberts, and .250 Savage.  At the rather "pedestrian" velocities from the .256, "varmint" bullets (particularly the Vmax) perform much as a good big-game bullet, and penetration/integrity was very favorably surprising on the goat taken with that cartridge.   
« Last Edit: Nov 1st, 2011 at 11:55am by spitpatch »  
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RoyB
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Re: A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Reply #6 - Dec 8th, 2011 at 10:43am
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Man, That is just a BEAUTIFUL picture!

THANKS!
  

Roy B
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Re: A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Reply #7 - Dec 8th, 2011 at 12:48pm
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Nice shooting! That's a great report, and great picture! Congratulations!
  

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Re: A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Reply #8 - Dec 8th, 2011 at 10:59pm
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Damn, that's a FINE Looking Model '85!!

Terry
  

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Re: A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Reply #9 - Dec 9th, 2011 at 2:21pm
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Yes......... would never have thought of a 25-20 as a deer rifle in this day-in-age. Am actually surprised it is legal for same. Nonetheless, great report and a really  beautiful rifle. Starting the restoration of my Marlin 1894 in 25-20, but think I'll leave the deer/antelope/elk to my 1885 Win or Marlin 1895, both in 38-56.
  

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Re: A fine High Wall performs in the field (PIC)
Reply #10 - Dec 9th, 2011 at 3:00pm
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No short comings in using a 25-20 for Deer. It was my Aunts rifle of choice back in the day and I don't recall any survivors. She was a very accomplished marksman / women and shot placement is everything not caliber size.

J.Louis
  

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