Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Refinishing guns/or not (Read 16997 times)
mwhite49
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1600
Location: Camarillo California
Joined: Nov 14th, 2007
Refinishing guns/or not
Oct 16th, 2011 at 2:53pm
Print Post  
I have been doing some searching for info on the web and ran into a web site where the person seems to have refinished all of the firearms shown. Some to the point where they blued over color cased parts, stocks all varnished where they were oil finished originally. The guys web site said it all , He is a Businessman first. He had examples of guns that were very misleading, such as cut down rifles as carbines. 
Sometimes the new collectors get really burned by the snake  oil salesman. Barnum said there was a sucker born every second, but in our collective group of firearms collectors I think we all take a very dim view of unscrupulous businesses. I know I do.
So, if you are a new collector do your home work to check out just what it is that you are buying. Really read and pay attention to publications such as Flydermans guide. He explains NRA condition codes in a easy way to interpret. When dealing with Collectors weapons there is a big difference between NRA grading for these than grading for a newer type of firearm. 
But when a firearm is refinished correctly it can add to it's value. We have all seen a junker resurrected to a decent shooter and maybe a better looking example, and we all love the ones that look like they should, and hate the ones that are over buffed, chromed-[ I saw a chromed Ballard that the owner is real proud of] oh, and that was chrome, not nickel, Color case work by blow torch. I could go on but you get the point. I think refinishing a gun that is down and out on it last legs is really OK if it is done tastefully and to the original looks of what it was.  And not only the finish but the faker that cuts a rifle down to a carbine and pawns it off as such worth double what the rifle was.  The web site mentioned at the beginning had a few of those too. 
Oh, check out Bowers for guns
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Mike



  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
waterman
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2847
Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Joined: Jun 9th, 2004
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #1 - Oct 16th, 2011 at 6:09pm
Print Post  
Caveat emptor!  Thank goodness the guy has not got his fingers on any decent single shots.  But if you like old US militaria, be VERY careful.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 16302
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #2 - Oct 16th, 2011 at 10:01pm
Print Post  
Unfortunate, and when it happens it's usually to the newbie who's just getting started collecting. Once they realise they've been had a good deal of them just give up and don't collect anymore.
Those who would intentionally take advantage of buyers in gun sales are no better than pond scum. They don't care who they cheat. I think many experienced collectors begin to spot the way they word their ads, long before they spot discrepancies in the finish of the "collectable" arms they're selling.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Dave
Ex Member


Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #3 - Oct 16th, 2011 at 10:38pm
Print Post  
Kind of like the guy who advertises Mausers everywhere you look.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mwhite49
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1600
Location: Camarillo California
Joined: Nov 14th, 2007
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #4 - Oct 16th, 2011 at 11:16pm
Print Post  
I thought this would raise a few comments. Seems we are all on the same page here. I have seen single shots done up the same way, make a grown man cry. Chromed Ballard was just an example of the items he had. How about a PINK rifle for the wife, he had one of them too. 
Yes, his military rifles were not the normal curio and relic sort at all.  When I see stuff like he has then I start to question just how good the internals are. Makes me wonder. My first M-1 Garand was sold to me at the tender age of 14 as a real Winchester for 100.00, yea I'm that old. The dealer said it was all original 100%. I asked if I could return it if not happy same day. He said yes. I also purchased 20 rds of ammo and a clip for it. Dad and I went to the range, it jammed on every round. So dad opened it up and we saw that the only Winchester part was the action, the rest were a hodge podge of parts. And not very well done. Yes I got my money back from him and learned a very valuable lesson. From then on I took them apart right there in the guys shop before buying them. If they would not let me I did not buy it.
Now here today I can still get an auctioneer to  pull a breech block out of a ballard, an auctioneer that has never done that sort of thing before. I walked him through it and it was simple for him. He know has done this for me 4-6 times, in fact when I call he now says, yep I pulled the breech block and it is a cast/forged action. Sure changes what I'm willing to part with as far as cash goes, and when I explained that I would pay more for a forged action he was all ears.
Hope all of this helps someone in their endeavors to collect some nice items and get a good deal.
Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
40_Rod
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Extremism in the persuit
of accuracy is not a
vice

Posts: 4285
Location: Knoxville, TN
Joined: Apr 20th, 2004
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #5 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 8:04am
Print Post  
They all remind me of a gun that has been at every gunshow. It is a Wesson 2 trigger tip-up. They took it and put it on a buffing wheel and took off every edge on it along with the rust then they hot dip blued it. the frame and butt plate have a nice layer of chrome just like the bumper on a 58 Cadillac. They want $4000 for it because it's "Museum quality". some of these guys are shameless.

40 Rod
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7575
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #6 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 9:10am
Print Post  
Buyers best friend is a good gun library. And looking at lots of examples before you lay down hard cash.  Had been looking at Vintage American Double Barrel Shotguns. Something I knew nothing about. 

Bought all the books first then looked at hundreds of guns before laying down hard cash. Amazing the BS out there from dealer and collectors. Bigger the house worse the baloney is.

I will say if you are a shooter and pay according to the user value re-finished guns can be good buys. Main thing is don't pay for the refinish. Most cases it ought to sell for half a good original example.

Example I saw a Baker Gun Company double perfectly re-finished and stocked in beautiful Turkish Walnut. It was a show piece. Never mind original guns were stocked in American Walnut.  Somebody spent 2-3 thousand dollars on it.  Reliable dealer had it on sale for 1000 and probably would have taken 800 for the gun.  At 800 it would have been a good buy if stocked in American Wood. Let it pass, too pimped up for me.

Boats
« Last Edit: Oct 17th, 2011 at 9:17am by boats »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mwhite49
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1600
Location: Camarillo California
Joined: Nov 14th, 2007
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #7 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 12:15pm
Print Post  
Boats, thank you for saying it. I did not want to say PIMPED but you did. Pimped is correct I think for describing some of these that we have all seen. Or really gussied up, and they are being pimped out by the folks trying to move them. And I also think your correct about the bigger the house the bigger the amount of baloney is being slung. It reminds me of an old saying, Throw enough fecal matter out there something is bound to stick. We can all pick out the Con artists at the shows. We know who they are and how they work. Some now even work in teams. Flash some cash, a large amount close to any of them and watch out. I swear they telegraph that through out the show room-here he comes our sucker. And if you are not paying close attention he will get your cash. Out here in California they are starting to use girls that do not have much on in the way of clothes, they look like they are ready for the beach and they try to distract us, hell at one show one of them bent over and yep, both udders were on full display. Looked like she was almost suffering from Furniture disease you know chest of drawers disease as her chest is almost in her drawers. Sad is that she thought she was pretty too. 
Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
boats
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 7575
Location: Virginia
Joined: Apr 23rd, 2004
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #8 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 1:24pm
Print Post  
You would not want to put a set of "rims" and skinny tires on a 76 Monte Carlo any more than somebody should stock a classic American Rifle or Shotgun in Foreign wood no matter how pretty it is. To my eye anyway

Latest scam with hard to get new guns like the short barrel Smith & Wesson 625's or certain Marlin Lever actions is to list one and sell at a high price list again sell even higher then third time when the price is sky high really sell the gun. First two were phony sales one dealer to another and only listed to run the price up high.

Buyer beware

Boats
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mwhite49
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1600
Location: Camarillo California
Joined: Nov 14th, 2007
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #9 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 2:30pm
Print Post  
Boats, now that one using fake sales I have not heard of. But if there is money to be made doing it some one will think of it. There are sharp con artist in every aspect of the gun business, hell look at the Fast and Furious by Eric Holder, that somebitch is this country's biggest CON ARTIST, with guns.
If we could ever get proof that these dealers are doing this we could run them out of the business.
Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MIKE-T
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


[SHOOTCAST>

Posts: 636
Location: Wexford Township Michigan
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #10 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 2:43pm
Print Post  
Mike if you remember back, they were doing the same thing to us at the Great Western shows in the 70's.  Wink Wink
MIKE-T

mwhite49 wrote on Oct 17th, 2011 at 12:15pm:
Boats, thank you for saying it. I did not want to say PIMPED but you did. Pimped is correct I think for describing some of these that we have all seen. Or really gussied up, and they are being pimped out by the folks trying to move them. And I also think your correct about the bigger the house the bigger the amount of baloney is being slung. It reminds me of an old saying, Throw enough fecal matter out there something is bound to stick. We can all pick out the Con artists at the shows. We know who they are and how they work. Some now even work in teams. Flash some cash, a large amount close to any of them and watch out. I swear they telegraph that through out the show room-here he comes our sucker. And if you are not paying close attention he will get your cash. Out here in California they are starting to use girls that do not have much on in the way of clothes, they look like they are ready for the beach and they try to distract us, hell at one show one of them bent over and yep, both udders were on full display. Looked like she was almost suffering from Furniture disease you know chest of drawers disease as her chest is almost in her drawers. Sad is that she thought she was pretty too. 
Mike

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mwhite49
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1600
Location: Camarillo California
Joined: Nov 14th, 2007
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #11 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 3:51pm
Print Post  
Mike T,m damn I'm getting senile again, I forgot all about that bunch of shows. Yes pretty girls scantily clad in just about nothing at all do sell things, or confuse folks into buying something they really did not want. 
Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MIKE-T
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


[SHOOTCAST>

Posts: 636
Location: Wexford Township Michigan
Joined: Apr 16th, 2004
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #12 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 4:00pm
Print Post  
Mike, I have to say that at least that was the Stories my buddy told me Wink, of course I only looked at the guns! HA! HA! HA!

Nothing like 7 & 1/2 miles of gun tables to keep you busy, I never really believed that myself, but there sure was one H*ll of a lot of tables with guns on them!

Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mwhite49
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1600
Location: Camarillo California
Joined: Nov 14th, 2007
Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #13 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 4:43pm
Print Post  
As a kid I got dragged along to a bunch of different shows. the San Fransisco one that was held at the Cow Palace I think  was a good one and so was the Sacramento one and the Reno show. Vegas too. And it was tables for as far as you could see and then some. Too many for one day.
But I really miss the days that you could plop your money down and take the gun home right then. The anti gun nuts and Liberals have just about ruined this state and our country. I had a dealer about 2 weeks ago tell me that if he had is way we would have to do a transfer on percussion pistols could you could rob a bank with them too. Fecal headed folks irritate me to no end, I have no use for them and once he said that I found a different dealer to do transfers for me.
Mike
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Paul_F.
Ex Member


Re: Refinishing guns/or not
Reply #14 - Oct 17th, 2011 at 4:58pm
Print Post  
mwhite49 wrote on Oct 17th, 2011 at 3:51pm:
Mike T,m damn I'm getting senile again, I forgot all about that bunch of shows. Yes pretty girls scantily clad in just about nothing at all do sell things, or confuse folks into buying something they really did not want.
Mike


That's because it's illegal to pay money for what we really DO want when the pretty girls are around.

Wink
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 3 
Send TopicPrint