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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) German Schuetzen rifles (Read 35975 times)
mwhite49
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #15 - Oct 13th, 2011 at 9:19pm
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Joe, that would be nice.
Mike
  
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #16 - Oct 13th, 2011 at 9:26pm
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Mike, Mine was completely rebarrelled,  Even had to look real close (by sharper eyes than mine) to see where the breechblock had been bushed and redrilled for a rimfire.  If Biggi hadn't told me that the 22rfs did not come into common use until the 19-teens/twenties or so I'd have sworn it was all earlier/original.
  

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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #17 - Oct 13th, 2011 at 11:16pm
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Guys, where do you find such un bubba'd schutzen rifles??. I've been playing with military surplus rifles like springfields, mausers,enfields, and others. In 15 years of going to gunshows here in lousiaina thats about all you will find. I did find a stevens single shot in 25-20 single shot using the 25wcf cartridge. But the dealer did not have all the stuff that was supposed to have come with the rifle. Frank
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #18 - Oct 14th, 2011 at 11:41am
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I have had a theory that WW2  GIs of 2nd/3rd generation German American descent, from parts of the country where the schuetzen sport had been more common, who were in Germany very late in the war: and in the early occupation when civilian arms confiscation was being enforced, may have been more likely to recognize what those odd looking target rifles were, salvaged them, and brought them home as trophies. (very long complex sentence ---sorry)
 SO you might be more likely to find them in areas of the country where such trophies might have been more common. As the original GIS passed away and their estates entered the market the rifles started showing up.   Seems like a fair share of them were in the upper midwest from western PA west to the St Louis area and north of the Ohio---some too in New England;  I also suspect that areas where the "greatest Generation GIs" retired and other areas of military retirement/base concentration in the late 40's 50s & 60's might have had more of them as well.

But thats just a theory.  With an internet based market, now distribution is from all over.  Collectors watch closely and monitor estate sales and auctions.  I haven't seen one in years at a general/ public gun show.
« Last Edit: Oct 14th, 2011 at 11:49am by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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mwhite49
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #19 - Oct 14th, 2011 at 12:28pm
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I find mine at auctions. I deal with a bunch of different auctioneers and when they get items like these in I get a call, other times it is just plain luck. In the last 5 years I have had a Frank Wesson mid range, 2 Westley Richards Improved martini rifles, one engraved and found in a Los Beach gun store, 2 Peabody side hammers, and several other really nice single shot rifles. This is all from just digging around. I work in different states and travel, so when I travel I hunt for guns too. And you have to remember, the WW2 vets are dying off at a very fast pace, including my parents and uncles who were all collectors and hunters. They all brought stuff back from the war. And there is no reason why certain rifles were picked over others. I have had vets hand me a German target rifle complete with boxed sights and accessories that they got from some one in Germany before they were scraped. Those are rare. But with all of these vets passing away our generation-their children,  are in the best spot to collect them. In my town I have heard stories of older wives calling the local GESTPO to have them come get her dead husbands guns. And they do. Our local cops have a hay day, and they sure as heck do not turn them in. So some collectors run adds that try to get the wives/family to sell to them. It is a fun time to be a collector.
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frnkeore
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #20 - Oct 14th, 2011 at 1:06pm
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I got both my German single shot rifle at a auction house in Orange, CA (my home town) (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links). I bought them in the 80's from them when they were a much smaller company.

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mwhite49
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #21 - Oct 14th, 2011 at 8:14pm
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The best place I have found is at estate sales/auctions. Check your Internet for local auctions. Little Johns was great back then, now they are kinds big. Cowans is good but be careful with the descriptions, all of the auction house can be misleading at times, one mans NRA excellent is another mans -good or less, sometimes misleading.
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #22 - Oct 14th, 2011 at 11:32pm
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Mike and Frank, I'll probably never get the money to get one but do appreciate your input. Sad to say it you are probably right as our vets are leaving us as too fast a rate and when they are gone no one wants what they have had for so many years. God bless them all!!. Found out last week that I lost a good friend and shooting buddy. He passed in august and I only found out when I went by his house and no vehicles. Had a bad feeling so googled him and found his obituary notice. he was only 57. Darn. Thanks again, Frank
  

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marlinguy
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #23 - Oct 15th, 2011 at 8:47pm
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All the best stuff is in the hands of our seniors.(veterans or not) Unfortunately most young people aren't even interested, and if they are they don't have the funds to collect the best singleshot rifles.
When we have our annual two day collector's show, or our annual singleshot show, all the really neat firearms are on tables of silver haired guys. 
  

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mwhite49
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #24 - Oct 15th, 2011 at 11:15pm
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Hey Marlin guy, you hit the nail on the head. Even when I was a young guy and interested I did not have enough money, something else was always more important on the list of needs. 
I was lucky in that I had uncles that were really interested in the old guns, and in single shot rifles. One uncle in particular had a very large volume , more than most gunshops. He had been collecting for years, all types too. 
This early education on the finer points of shooting fine single shot rifles left a long lasting impression on me. And when I could about 20 years ago I started collecting. I do not have many, I buy and sell. But I always have fun. I love the older rifles. They have class that the newer rifles do not as far as I think. If we could get more youngsters involved in the sport it would be great. I have 3 boys that love to shoot, but only new guns. They think a muzzle loader is for a dog, as in muzzle.

The odd thing is when looking for old single shot rifles I generally find that they turn up in the strangest places sometimes. The thing with these fine old rifles that gets my goat is an auctioneer that really does not know rifles gets contacted by a family to haul it all away and half the good stuff ends up in the trash, like the tools and items from a cased set, signed targets from Pope and others. 
Take care and happy collecting.
Mike
  
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mwhite49
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #25 - Oct 20th, 2011 at 10:37pm
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Here are some pictures of the barrel mariking on one of these. I just got them today and I'm listing then on Gunbroker. Both have decent bores.
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #26 - Oct 21st, 2011 at 10:00am
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As far as I can see on that pic, the rifle has the normal German proofmarks B-G-U with the crowns and the running number 172 from the year 1928 as shown.

             Biggi.  Smiley
  

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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #27 - Oct 21st, 2011 at 10:37am
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Biggi,
Do you have any idea what the S or the AH mean on that barrel?

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mwhite49
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #28 - Oct 21st, 2011 at 10:59am
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Hi Biggi, thanks for the translation on the date this one was made. I had to change the auction on Gunbroker so it ships to an FFL holder.
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Re: German Schuetzen rifles
Reply #29 - Oct 21st, 2011 at 11:14am
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All in all I am not an expert in proof-marks. I don't know the "S" and the "AH" on that barrel. I think it might have something to do with "Suhl" in Thuringia. But there were hundreds (!) of gun-smiths and gun-makers round Suhl, Zella, Mehlis and St. Blasii in the old days. And there were also a lot with the initials "AH". 

So I cannot give a final statement to those proof-marks.  Huh  Undecided 

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